I wanna know if you guys out there think it's moral wrong for women to be in the Mafia and yes I won't let this one rest until I see my point. Do you guys feel this way if a women was strong enough to command a Mafia family would she be respected by other Mafia families? I can say that me being a young women could be just as strong as a man in the mafia I could handle my own pretty well. Would you guys have a problem with a girl heading a family would you give her respect? Let me know and don't try to be a hothead about it! :p

Sonny's Girl -

You're not going to get a favorable answer on this one. What is, and what should be are two different things here. There is no such thing as political correctness in the Mob, and the truth of the matter is that women are not highly regarded by mobsters.

Well, I guess it really depends on how you look at it. SC is certainly right that many Mobsters don't regard women in high esteem. However, I always thought that original Sicilians Mafia Members consider women so sacred that they cannot accept them to be involved in such a Dangerous and exhausting profession. I thought the Sicilians considered bringing up children a holy duty to be completed by their mothers, when possible.

I think thats quite a stupid question..



I dont think being in the mafia is moral at all, ok we all love and dream of being somewhere incuded in it but we all know thats never going to happen and we all still know its wrong. Its just the movies and the things we read in the paper have glorified the activites of the mafia.

Also if a woman was strong enough to command a family I don't think it would ever happen because of the sexism in todays culture around the world, its the same with any business.

I dont mean to be rude these are only my opinions and feelings. Thats the whole point of this board. :rolleyes:

It really depends on how you look at it. I've seen so many irresponsible people in high places that I came to hate governments the way Sicilians do. I don't think I can trust them (governments) and I really don't think being in the Mafia is wrong, unless you get to become a "...crazy killing machine.." that doesn't differentiate between people who're worth killing and those who're not. Of course, financing such a thing isn't gonna be easy.

In conclusion, the mafia isn't immoral any more than legitimate governments. Remember "Wag the Dog"?? Compare it with Clinton and The Lewinski issue and the bombing of a country in Africa (who's name I can't remember) which happened right after the Lewinski incident became public. Look at the ex-president's pardons. Hitler, Russia, Castro...They're all legitimate governments in their own countries. Are they moral? What makes any other government any different?

[ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: Sonny ]

Regarding the "morality" of the Mob, and of government, here's a few lines from our favorite movie (thanks to Geoff's "The Godfather" website):

Michael: "My father is no different than any other powerful man -- any man who's responsible for other people, like a senator or president."

Kay: "You know how naive you sound...senators and presidents don't have men killed."

Michael: "Oh, who's being naive, Kay?"

Well if the Mafia is morally or inmorally wrong who cares. We all know that Mafia existed and still is around today. To me the Mafia is like the government both use their power to contorl things and both have leaders who people look up to. I also thought that today's culture has changed with women and sex. Women's roles in sex are much different from what was back in the day. Today women are able to command more respect from men. I guess in some cases.

I never said i agree with the government, I meant to say the mafia has brought a lot of pain to alot of people. And I think thats wrong. But im confused at Sonny not thinking the mafia was wrong, ok in sicily its another matter, its offered pretection to the people, but nearly everywhere else its proven to be a dangerous power. So drug trafficing and all the other illigal activities are alright?

I dont mean to be patronizing but you have to look at it with another perspective

Well, let me just say that if someone is ('scuze my French) STUPID enough to get on drugs, a person (who can secure drugs) will be stupid Not to sell them to the one stupid enough to get on drugs.

Yes, drugs are harmful, addictive and life-destroying. Still, people (from every generation) tend to START using drugs even though they know all its bad stuff. Well, how many times can you tell someone that drugs are bad. If they still want'em, why not let'em have it. It's profitable too. It's only illegalized by governments (who claim they are moral.)

However, one should also keep in mind that the so-called "illegal drugs" are fully LEGAL in Holland (The Netherlands), although it's rulled by another "fully moral" government. Which government is right? Which viewpoint is "moral"?

Hey, I'm not defending the Mafia organizations that "Force" people on to drugs (i.e. beating them up for a couple of weeks until they get addicted.) I even doubt those exist. [A flash of Untouchables just passed me when DeNiro says "...it's bad for business..."] I'm only defending those that "procure" demanded products for its customers. It just happens that some people who have the power to make laws don't think those products are good (keep in mind that there are people who get addicted to Tobbacco, Alchohol, SEX!!!, computers, work, and even Coca-Cola)...

Imagine the law prohibiting people from practicing SEX because it's "addictive", or working more than x hours a day.

No I don't think that providing such products is immoral as long as, while doing so, the supplier (the Mafia in this case) doesn't force anyone on it, nor mislead anyone regarding its effects (which is the current practice of Tobbacco and Alchohol companies.)

I mean no offence to anyone's beliefs...It's just business.

The drug trafficing was only an example but while we're on that what is the thing that led to the heavy destruction of the mafia?

Another thing, does anyone find the current situation of Salvatore 'Sammy the Bull' Gravano a tiny bit funny. What an idiot first he squeels on Gotti and the rest of the Gambino family to escape a very long sentence. Then goes into hiding and is now caught for holding the largest ecstacy drug ring in Arizona plus his wife and children are due to be charged too. Gotti must be loving it, I know I am.

If anyone else has anymore info on this I would like to know thanks.

I honestly have no idea.

Turi -

Check out the link (below) for some updated info on Gravano. I can only suggest that he has some psychological urge to do himself harm. Click on the line saying "Article".

Article about Sammy Gravano

By the way, the rest of that website (from which the article is taken) is pretty interesting.

[ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: SC ]

I have a female as supervisor. She is in charge of a rather large retail store. This store generates many millions of dollars in revenue annually. Most of the time she is competent, however she succumbs to the usual stressful situtations with the same reaction: panic, insulting, asking for solutions rather than taking charge, crying (this occurs in private, but red eyes are difficult to hide),pouting and finally leaving the premises. Mafia Boss? I don't think so.

No to the original question, even though some of us went off on a tangent. This may sound sexist but women think differently than men. I suppose there are some women out there who could but not generally.
Women can be conniving and devious which are definitely attributes that can work will in the mob but by and large no.
Why? 1)Respect from men 2) Temperment: women will do some things out of spite and 'cut off their nose to spite their face'. 3) Gossiping: most women have to tell their business to others. They love to gossip.

This may sound sexist but I think it applies to different cultures also. Some cultures are too high spirited and traditionally do not have the attributes the Sicilians do.

Padrino I'm not like most women who cares about gossiping. That I can do without. But aren't most men in the Mafia conniving, devious, and most don't have respect for other men. Again most women don't have respect for all men. But one thing that's right men and women don't think alike. But not all men think alike either. So why not have a women run the Mafia I would love 2 see it.

Wow. I like the gossip part. Right on the head...

But Sonny don't you understand most women don't really gossip. As you know I'm not like most girls and truth being gossip leads to too much drama that's not call for. :rolleyes:

No way.

There is no love stonger on earth than the love a mother has for her child. (Which is a beautiful thing and is not to be minimized.) That love trumps everyting in life. In the Mafia, EVERYTHING comes after your mafia responsibilities. While it may be difficult for a father to put the mafia in front of his children, in general, a mother could NEVER do that.

This is basically why women are unreliable in the military as well.

Very well said, Gurat.

Wow. Interestingly impressive.

Yeah right guys don't gossip!! I think men are more analytical than women. Less emotional than women and some seem to get over things easier than women. Statisics have proven that about 1% of women kill themselves with guns so why would they use it on others? They would have to give their victims pills or slash their wrists to kill em!! ( That is womans preferred method of doing themselves in)

So are you saying that girls or women are too emotional? And only 1% kill theirselves what hell does that have to do with anything? Trust me I don't need a pill or a slash in my damn wrist to get something done. Is that understood? This message is for EB!

You wouldnt believe how statistics can be used to stretch the truth. An old philosopher (I think anyway) said there are lies, damned lies and statistics.

First of all EB you never pointed out the variable. Did you mean 1% of all suicides, or female suicides. Alot of things like this that the authorities change to make the statistics look even worse or even better by saying 1% of female suicides over 18 or in a certain country where suicide rates can differ immensly.

Clarification 1% of female suicides in the U.S.use a gun to kill themselves. The fact that a woman will not use a gun on themselves would indicate to me they would not want to use it on someone else. I dont think women are as violent as men. I am sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I just dont see a woman heading the mafia. Sorry. Women can get "things" done. They could manage the business part ;maybe order a hit, but I prefer to think that the violent part of the mafia "making their bones" would be left to the guys. I know statistics can be used to manipulate anything. I work with the damn things every week and tell my boss to go to NA (Numbers Anonymous)!!

See that's where your wrong EB. Again you must have this thing where you think all women think alike! Trust me we all don't. Here's a example of how I think or how I would think if I was a leader in the Mafia. If you were somehow a soilder for another Mafia family I wouldn't have no problem wacking your freaking head off. Why do men always seem to think women aren't strong enough to handle everything. What's up with that? And anyway most men can't even get the whole job done even if they wanted too.

To Sonny's girl, Are you just asking this question to men? The question started out "you guys..." So maybe I should not have responded to this query at all! I do not think that all women think alike! Obviously by your statements you have what it takes to blow someone away. I see why you selected the name sonny's girl!. You are very passionate about women in the mafia. "Behind every successful man there is a strong woman" I believe that statement. Where did I state that a woman cannot handle things? You would need to ask a man that question. I cannot speak for that gender.

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: EB ]

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: EB ]

Because they're not.

Men are more aggressive, violent and powerful. There can be no arguing that. What do you think happened back when Humans first showed-up? They fliped a coin (Actually a clam shell if we're to site the Flinstones as precedent) and the women got the little bodies and the men, the big ones?

Psssstht.....Statistics!

Statistics can be used to prove anything that's even remotely true.

Exactly that was my point. I don't know if you misunderstood me or you were just emphasizing my point.

Yeah, EB my post was for men not saying that women couldn't reply. I just wanted to hear what a guy had to say. I have this opinion that I want the whole world to hear! That's just me sonny's girl. So thanx for replying!~ :p