well .. fact vs nonsense as you said..

Accardo was not boss - Nonsense
Giancana was bulletproof - Nonsense

"You people really haven't the slightest clue...It's quite astounding, really" - N O N S E N S E

"The Chicago Outfit is & always has been second to the Gambino Family in the United States, and it always will be."-nonsense
or was it Genovese Family? - anyway also nonsense

Accardo - I actually find him to be one of the least interesting figures throughout Outfit history. (how can you say that and expect us to buy it), Nonsense again ..

You also said Giancana put a stop to Accardo holding lavish parties at his house and he was maybe gonna get whacked for buying it.. big Nonsense

I'll stop there because I could go all day ...just trying to show you why I got a problem with what your "facts", and as far as common knowledge - I swear your the only one I have EVER heard say things like this ..

as someone once said on here... I was born - but not yesterday

don't take offense buddy..

Sam Giancana - "bulletproof"

Buddy, Accardo was a crew boss, yes, but NEVER the full-on boss of the Chicago Outfit. I understand that it is generally thought that he in fact was, but that is 100% false.

Moe Giancana IN HIS PRIME (meaning the years in which he reigned) was completely bulletproof.

If you aren't aware of these two FACTS, then you really haven't the slightest clue, sorry, don't take offense

I corrected myself on the Gambino typing error.

How is Tony Accardo not being a particularly interesting Outfit character not completely understandable?

When did I say Accardo was going to get whacked for purchasing the mansion? That mansion was bugged the fuck up, buddy, Accardo had the tendencies of a careless drunk.

Anything else?

"He toyed around with getting clipped/whacked when he purchased his River Forest mansion in 1953 & began holding massive, lavish parties, a HUGE no no within the Outfit. Giancana abruptly put a stop to that & the mansion was sold in 1961, with Accardo moving to a more modest, unassuming location." - you did not say this?

And yes, Moe Giancana was absolutely, positively the greatest American gangster that ever put on a fuckin fedora. He was everything a gangster should be & more: completely bulletproof, mingled with celebrities & ultra-powerful figures, walked it, talked it, and the Outfit was more profitable & powerful than it had ever been (and ever has been) during his reign. - You never said anything about "IN HIS PRIME"


"Accardo had the tendencies of a careless drunk." - I think your drunk

Anything else?

I think you should stop trying to instigate arguments & ask me some real questions on the Chicago Outfit if you're REALLY this interested.

Yes, him being a known alcoholic/party animal & purchasing that mansion got his superiors/peers worried & concerned, and their fears turned out to be legit. It was a complete catastrophe, and a great example of why he was never voted in as the main man.

In His Prime is implied, he didn't get whacked during his reign, now did he?

Anything else?

Bridgeport:

All of the available evidence and research that I've seen suggests that Accardo was direct boss or at very least shared power with Ricca after Ricca's release from prison. Then in 1957, Accardo, like Ricca before him, turned over direct day to day responsibility to Giancana. Accardo, whatever you wanted to call him at this point, still had authority over Giancana-however remote or indirect. Ultimately Accardo could tell Giancana what to do-not the other way around. This remained the case after Ricca's death and Giancana's "forcible retirement" . Accardo, semi-retired or not, still was first among equals in the Outfit hierarchy.

What evidence do you have to suggest that this wasn't the case? That Accardo was never boss? I would be very interested in reading it. Thanks.

well I guess your right ...we're all wrong.. is that what you wanna hear?, can't really be bothered arguing with you guy, I just wish Accardo was alive and like 105 years old - I'm positive he would swing his bat off your fucking head for this bullshit...and once again no offense but if I wanna know more about the outfit i'll ask someone who knows what they're talking about...

and no there is nothing else..

Absolutely untrue, besides the fact that Joe Batters "shared" power with Ricca, which was somewhat true, but Ricca still had final say on every major matter. Tony Accardo was a roach to Moe Giancana, lol. Come on now, you people actually believe this FBI-proposed nonsense? Accardo didn't pass the torch to anyone, Giancana was the obvious choice, he had everything you wanted out of a boss. No one had any type of authority over Sam Giancana, he was the greatest Outfit boss of them all, followed by Ricca & Aiuppa. Joe Batters knew he couldn't compete with guys like Ricca/Moe/Aiuppa and he was perfectly content with taking a back seat to those guys. It boded well for him, as he remained wealthy & healthy for a very long time, and avoided the slammer like a champ. But the main guy? Never, always & forever a consigliere.

In the book the Outfit and also in some of Roemer's books, there is a description of Accardo and Ricca summoning Giancana to a meeting in which they expressed profane displeasure with his management style and removed him from his leadership position. New front men were put into the spot but ultimate authority still rested with Accardo and Ricca.

So again, this sounds as if someone certainly DID have authority over Giancana. Consigleres don't remove bosses. Do you have any evidence that this story is inaccurate. If so please provide it to us.

No one had "authority" over Moe. It was universally decided that Moe should go away for a while. No one had any idea that Aiuppa/Cerone were going to make a play for power & force Accardo/Ricca into playing along. Moe knew he had to go away, he knew they were getting a little bit too close to the higher ups of the U.S. govt. for comfort.

Joey O'Brien's rise to power & claiming of the throne came as a surprise to everyone. Giancana treated Aiuppa & Cerone like dirt when he was in power, and it was a give-in that Aiuppa was going to take Moe/DeStefano/etc. out as his first order of business, and that's exactly what he did.

Joe Batters was a tough motherfucker, he is a top 5 Outfit figure of all-time, but he was never the main guy. No one with any real knowledge on the Outfit disagrees with that FACT.

Hmmmm....very interesting! However I am a bit confused. Perhaps you can help me understand what constitutes, or should I say, qualifies one to have "real knowledge" about the outfit?

Knowledge that wasn't obtained from books/feds/the internet.

So,in other words, the reason one may have "real knowledge" is because he or she has first hand knowledge?

Why make me go into that? I have some really good info so I thought I'd share because I have noticed there is a whole lot of BS about the Outfit on this particular website. Be thankful, ask me questions, I'm not a bad guy, nor am I a liar. I speak on what I know, that's all I've got.

how many made guys does the outfit have now?

I believe we went into this in another thread, or maybe it was in this one.

Currently, the Outfit has 175-200 "made" members, and upwards of 250 associates. The numbers could be much greater than this. The thing is, being "made" really doesn't mean anything in the Outfit anymore. If you're an earner, and you present loyalty, you're in. In some ways, the Outfit has always been about this, strictly about money & security, no matter what it takes.

can you please tell us how you came up with this figure?

So you want me to get into who I know & how I know these things? I can tell you right now, that's not happening.

Let's put it this way: You're getting your info from the Bureau that thought that Tony Accardo, Jimmy Marcello, & Joey Lombardo were actually prolific main bosses of the Chicago Outfit :-/ You're getting your info from guys that didn't know what the fuck was going on or who was boss during O'Brien's reign. You're listening to men that actually, seriously believe that the Chicago Outfit only has 20-25 made members TOPS & & 100-125 associates TOPS.

Where/when does it end? When will you realize that the FBI essentially knows jack shit about what really goes on within the Chicago Outfit. Local law enforcement more in love with & corrupted by them than ever before. Half of the feds that are supposedly out to get them are buddybuddy with them. So please, spare me.

As another user mentioned, www.americannewspost.com is the most extensive, revealing website pertaining to REAL Chicago Outfit knowledge available on the Internet. I don't necessarily agree with everything that Mr. Fosco does there, but he has his reasons & the folks that come there & have discussions under the posts in Fosco's 'Organized Crime' section are extremely knowledgeable on Outfit matters.

You come here, to the GBB, and make a lot of noise and disrupt the boards. You've been asked to tone it down, but you haven't. And now you plug a different website? Did you ask Geoff's permission to advertise a different site here?

You owe Geoff an apology.

i actually don't give 2 fucks about the chicago mob. they interest me about as much wet fart. i just enjoy asking you questions to see you ridiculous answers. if you really did know people in the outfit would they appreciate jerk offs like yourself coming on here and spreading this vast valuable information? believe it or not important people do read these sites. we actually had a user brought up in a news article a few months back because of his allegations of people being rats in boston. vinnygourgeous217 was his name. not my funny friend vinny gourgeous but the other guy. you really make yourself out to be very foolish. maybe you do know these people. chances are you probably don't. anyone who has been on the internet for more than a month knows that the high stake people are not to be believed. can you blame us for questioning your arrogant attitude? do you know how many insiders, and relatives, and real wiseguys we have had on this board? more than i care to name. or remember. and they all fit a criteia, they have less than 30 posts under the belt. claim outrageous claims in their first 10 and stir up a shit storm within their next 20. and you sir fit that criteria. prove us wrong. back it up with some facts. some cold hard evidence. more than just im not getting into that.

I don't remember targeting you or posting to you directly, or any of that. I don't know who you are, nor do I care to. I don't care about any of your goofy internet bullshit gossip, I speak the Truth. I don't drop names & I don't fuck around. If you would like to discuss things rationally, I would be somewhat glad to oblige you. I don't give a fuck about your goofy friends that post here or who posted here before or any of that fuckin nonsense. Unless you have anything of worth to contribute to the discussion, please refrain from getting involved. You obviously just want names/etc. & it's not gonna happen. You come off as a goofball wannabe, no offense.

Apologies to whoever Geoff is. Another member "plugged" the site as well, why is not being persecuted?

I'm very thankful. You provide a lot of laughs for everybody, Bridge.



LOL! And then you woke up.



What a shock.



And you get your info from.....oh wait....that's right....you won't say. Because you have no source. Just the fact that you happen to live in Chicago and are 100% Sicilian. Which amounts to a hill of beans.



But why would we go to Fosco's blog when we have you? You already told us not to believe what we read online. I'm so confused.

If by "universally decided" you mean decided by Accardo and Ricca, then I agree.

Look, you are making definitive claims about events that occurred between 40 and 60 years ago. These claims just need to be backed up with some sort of evidence. That's all anyone is asking for. What are your sources that other members can investigate and evaluate for themselves.

If there is a ton of primary and secondary source evidence (wiretaps, informants, FBI files, etc) showing that from the forties through the sixties that Chicago Outfit top bosses were Ricca and Accardo and that they turned over day to day authority to others, then someone making a different claim needs to prove it.

Geoff owns these boards and the parent website. The chances are good that he'd have no problem with you advertising another website (he's very fair) but you should have asked permission first. It's a simple sign of respect.

You're new here. I'm not sure to which other member you are referring but he/she may have been around for awhile and more leeway is granted them when dealing with such matters. Maybe one day you'll be in that group, but it looks doubtful as of now. You're bringing a lot of grief on yourself with your arrogance and attitude. Chill and get to know how things operate here.

I understand what you're asking for, and I already said I'm not about to share information like that.

Paul Ricca was the boss of the Chicago Outfit during that time period, & Tony Accardo was the consigliere & fronted while Ricca was in prison. Moe Giancana slaved & burned his way to the top, he was under no one's thumb & no one had any type of authority over him, he was as real deal as it got.

Lilos got a good point. Theres a big difference between a informant telling a police officer that so and so is a drug dealer and then they use photos, wiretaps and raids and actually find drugs and evidence to someone who hears something on the street and posts it on the internet as fact.

This is the problem with posters that imply that they are gettin info from street sources i.e criminals, ex gangsters or whatever. even if you are able to talk with them their info is just as unreliable as any other source simply because they are as i stated criminals who lie, cheat and steal for a living anyway.

The Feds' main bug back then was Celano's Tailor Shop, a gathering place for connection guys & fixers only, primarily frequented Gus Alex & Murray Humphries, both jealous non-Italians that Giancana could not stand. All they got from that was braggadocio rants from wannabes. Roemer was also very close with Jackie Cerone, who thoroughly bullshitted him & his boys every step of the way.

'Family Secrets' was a bust too. They put a few senile old geezers away, who's kids have more ability/influence today than their fathers do. Very little information that wasn't already known was leaked from that trial, and a plethora of bullshit to go along with it. The Feds came out of the 'Family Secrets' trial angry, bitter, & confused.

Bob Cooley was the only one to really, really put a dent into the Outfit, and even Operation Gambat was largely unsuccessful. So Marco D'Amico did ten years, big deal. Now he's back & more powerful than ever.

Fact is, the Feds have never really been able to corner the Outfit, as much as they've desperately tried. Every time they get close, the Outfit retreats into the shadows & makes nothing noticeable. It's been going on for years & the Outfit is most definitely winning the battle.