Anyone with a lot of mafia knowledge (turnbull) know of any Italian vs Russian mob scruffles? I don't think there have been any big wars. But I heard before that they have had rumbles.

Well, I don't think so. As far as I know the Sicilian Mafia is not in war with the Russians. I don't even believe the Russians are in a 'war' with anyone.

The Russian well kill the mafia now if they go to
war

The so-called Russian Mafia in Brooklyn, NY, made a deal with the local Mafia regarding the Russkis' gasoline tax scam. Other than that, I know of no other interactions and skirmishes in the US. Good luck to anyone trying to horn in on the Russian mob's activities in the former USSR. :rolleyes:

I don't think anyone else has an interest in operating in Russia. But as for America, I believe the Italians are still in control. At least, from a few shows on the Russian mafia I've watched like on the Discovery channel or whatever, they always talk about a Russian getting some deal or something from an Italian boss, and like doing jobs for them. I don't know how the Russians organizational structure is... like the Italians have the Five Famalies of New York.

I think you can't compare the two things:

The organization of Sicilian Mafia (Italian) is fundamented on FAMILY. The Russian Mafia totally not. The members are all most times ex-prisoners. 99% of the members is 'crowned'in jail. So there's a little link with family or things like that. These members are called "Vory v Zakone" (don't ask me what it is in English or Dutch). They have certain codes that apply to these thieves. Interesting is that even the Russian Mafia has a sort of commission. This is called the "bratski krug". It contains 6-9 important members and is the authority of the members. The head of each gang is called the "Smotryaschiy". Kind of Capo I think.

Succesion althoug is decided by the family. When your dad is the boss, and you are first son, you become the next boss.

Conclusion: The structure is most the same as the Italian Mafia but the FUNDAMENT is very different.

BTW the big problem for the government is that they don't know exactly 'who is who'. They don't know the key-players yet. Some big names in the circuit were Ivankov and the brothers Filonov (sergey and taras).

IMO I don't think they have such things as the Italians have the 5 families in NY. At least (according to info of 1998) there are 24 organizations active in North Amerika.

This is all I know. Hope it is of interest for you.

Thanks MMFloors, you know a lot about the Russians. I don't but i think i know what Vor v Zakone means. In Dutch it means "dief binnen de wet" so in English its this (i think)"thief in(side) the law". But i dont think thats the right translation...so any dutch people who CAN give the right translation..??

Yes your right. In knew I read it somewhere in my books and found it yesterday. It means "Thieves in Law". The stupid thing is that I have vacation now, so I went back to home, but I forgot the book to take it with me. In this book the other words like "Smotryaschiy" are also explained. But unfortunately I don't have the book here. When I'm back in Nijmegen I will post it.

"Smotryaschiy" means the one who looks at(or after) something. Kind of supervisor.

Yes your right. In knew I read it somewhere in my books and found it yesterday. It means "Thieves in Law". The stupid thing is that I have vacation now, so I went back to home, but I forgot the book to take it with me. In this book the other words like "Smotryaschiy" are also explained. But unfortunately I don't have the book here. When I'm back in Nijmegen I will post it. [/b][/quote]Whick book is it? I have one called "Russische Maffia" is it that one? I haven't start reading it yet because i bought it 2 days ago and i'm still reading "Maffia op Wall Street" and "De Amerikaanse Mafia"van THomas Reppetto. The original titel is:"American Mafia. A history of its Rise to Power."
Good books..

No, I have 1 book specialized in Russian Mafia. It's called Russian Mafia, written by Robert Friedman. But the book I have this info from is called "De nieuwe wereldorde van de georganiseerde misdaad" from Nicaso & Lamothe. This is a easy to understand book with nice info of different kinds of OC.

Guys I speak Russian so if you have any questions on the translations I will tell you. Vory V Zakone means Thieves In Law. And that is basically the don. You can actually tell if some one is a vor they have stars on there shoulders. That means when you were in prison you did not bow down to any one. And Smotrashiy in translation mean Looker. They are ussually in prison and they look for the prisoners behavior.

Thats nice you speak Russian...it will make things I read in books a lot easier if I can ask someone to translate it.

You translated correctly but the explanation is slightly incorrect. Smotriaschiy outside the prison is a kind of capo di capi. Usually he is a highly respected person in underworld, and acts as a "supreme court" when "Dons" heading criminal groups have disagreements about activities, territories etc. They cannot refuse his decision unless they can fight him, but usually he is the most powerful of them.
The supervisor in prison society is called so mostly by analogy, it doesn't mean that he was a real smotriaschiy in the world outside. But likewise he is the most respected one in that small group.

You speak russian too?

Zeker, natuurlijk doe ik. Is het niet duidelijk?

haha....jij spreekt veel talen. That's a good thing....