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Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: Don Cardi] #380601
03/31/07 06:08 PM
03/31/07 06:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
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 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
 Originally Posted By: SC
It appears to me that those who have found this to be offensive (here, in this thread, anyway) are from an "older" generation.


I believe that you hit the nail on the head SC.

And your point is now quite evident due to a reference made in jest in an earlier post here:

 Quote:
I keep getting the vibe that this one is set in the senior citizens home.


As the saying goes " The truth is sometimes said in jest." ;\)


Remember what Uncle Junior told Tony about the crazy old crew up in Providence, Rhode Island, "They may be old, my little nephew, but those dogs can still hunt".

Ruff!


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: Don Cardi] #380602
03/31/07 06:09 PM
03/31/07 06:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 14,900
Beth E Offline
Crabby
Beth E  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
 Originally Posted By: Beth E

But then again, most men think with their penises. \:\)



And most woman provoke thought . \:p ;\)


I wouldn't know anything about that.


How about a little less questions and a lot more shut the hell up - Brian Griffin

When there's a will...put me in it.
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: Sicilian Babe] #380603
03/31/07 06:13 PM
03/31/07 06:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,046
Miami, FL
Don Andrew Offline OP
Underboss
Don Andrew  Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
It's offensive to some people!! Why is that so difficult to understand?? It's stripping something that some people consider sacred and exposing it for the world to see.

I would find a nude picture of the Pope or of Sister Teresa offensive. They are human. However, IMHO, they are without sexuality, as they are celibate humans who are married to their service to God. Perhaps you wouldn't find those photos offensive, but I would. Is that so incomprehensible??



That's fine, but a nude sculpture of Jesus may be justified in that Jesus was probably crucified in the nude, and this sculpture depicts that.


Hey, how's it going?
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: SC] #380606
03/31/07 06:29 PM
03/31/07 06:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 69
NY
NYC Goodfella Offline
Button
NYC Goodfella  Offline
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Posts: 69
NY
You know something? I've been sitting here reading these posts and I am just amazed how there seems to be a lack of respect and understanding from both ends.

Why is it so hard for some of you people to understand that there are those who've been experienced in the world that hold a sacredness to the teachings that they've been brought up on and have believed in all their lives? Those of the older generation have experienced many things in life and also have certain morals and beliefs embedded deeply within themselves.

Why is it so hard for some of the younger people to understand and respect them for that?

By the same account many younger people here have their own beliefs. So why is it so hard for some of the older generation people to listen to and respect those beliefs? Younger people are people too and have thoughts and opinions that count.

What I really think the problem is is that some of the younger people here have not shown respect to those who believe that Jesus is their God because they've made some offensive remarks about the God that some believe in. And some of the older people have shown a disregard for the opinions of the younger people who have made some pretty valid arguments.

You all need to show a little more respect to both generations. Us young people can learn from those who have experienced life a little longer than we have. And you experienced people can learn something from us younger people who are going through life and experienceing a different time than you have.

Bottom line here is that no one is 100% right or 100% wrong in their beliefs. Some from both sides have valid points. So all we really need to do is learn to listen to one another and show a little respect for each other's beliefs.

There is no need for a younger person to tell an older person that what they believe in is wrong nor is there any reason for an older person to tell a younger person what they believe is wrong either.

We need to respect and learn from all generations be they experienced or not.


A CowArd Dies a 1000 deaths, a Soldier dies but Once
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: NYC Goodfella] #380608
03/31/07 06:40 PM
03/31/07 06:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
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Throggs Neck
I am humbled by your post NYC Goodfella. It's thoughtful and well written. Thank you.

Pizzaboy


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: pizzaboy] #380611
03/31/07 07:16 PM
03/31/07 07:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
You know, there are several things that I'd like to do. Some are immoral, some are illegal, some are unhealthy, some are ignorant. Some of them I don't do them because I relaize that I am part of the whole. I don't want to give bad example. So, I forsake doing them.

Artistic expression is not something that escapes self-imposed constraint. I am an apostate Catholic. I don't believe in God. But, if the artist of this sculpture would have asked me, I would have advised him to express himself in a way that risked the least amount of offensiveness. He could have figured out a way to do that while satisfying himself.

Last edited by olivant; 03/31/07 09:52 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: svsg] #380626
03/31/07 08:39 PM
03/31/07 08:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,512
Right here, but I'd rather be ...
long_lost_corleone Offline
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Right here, but I'd rather be ...
 Originally Posted By: svsg
SC, the difference is that religion is belief based and open to public and relationship with mother is just for the son. Also, some religion like Islam, accepts the fact that Jesus existed, but its followers do not accept that Jesus was their savior. So the very fact that someone has a different(and not so sacred) view on the very SAME Jesus should make their belief offensive to the followers of Jesus. But most christians don't have an inherent problem with the existence of Islam which does not recognize Jesus in such an important way. So why can't you treat this artist to belong to a different religion altogether philosophically speaking? One who sees Jesus in a different way than the conventional Catholic view.


That could be the best point made in this thread as of yet.



"Somebody told me when the bomb hits, everybody in a two mile radius will be instantly sublimated, but if you lay face down on the ground for some time, avoiding the residual ripples of heat, you might survive, permanently fucked up and twisted like you're always underwater refracted. But if you do go gas, there's nothing you can do if the air that was once you is mingled and mashed with the kicked up molecules of the enemy's former body. Big-kid-tested, motherf--ker approved."
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: SC] #380692
03/31/07 11:38 PM
03/31/07 11:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SC
 Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Have you seen many saggy 85 year old women ?


My last date. \:\(



Is that the one who you couldn't find the funny on?



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: Don Cardi] #380696
03/31/07 11:48 PM
03/31/07 11:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
SC  Offline
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New York
 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi

Is that the one who you couldn't find the funny on?


Yeah.... I didn't find her funny at all.

You hadda roll her in flour and tell her to pee..... well, never mind.


.
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: SC] #380699
03/31/07 11:59 PM
03/31/07 11:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SC
 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi

Is that the one who you couldn't find the funny on?


Yeah.... I didn't find her funny at all.

You hadda roll her in flour and tell her to pee..... well, never mind.




I found it HERE for you.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: Don Cardi] #380700
04/01/07 12:03 AM
04/01/07 12:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
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Throggs Neck
Oh, that is just bleepin priceless!



"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: Don Cardi] #380723
04/01/07 09:18 AM
04/01/07 09:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
Capo de La Cosa Nostra Offline
Capo de La Cosa Nostra  Offline

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Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
 Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
I agree, DC. Personally, I didn't think that it was very good sculpture. Perhaps the sculptor made up for talent with sensationalism.
And all the better for it. Again, point made and goal achieved on the artist's part.

 Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Isn't anything sacred anymore?
Sure. But moralists have no place in an art gallery. and this was clearly in an art gallery. If you like, if it was in some way a statue which could preach, it'd be preaching to the already-converted. It's not asking Catholics to go see it or to change their views. It's there as a product of an artist for the consumption by art fans, critics, whatever. I mean this in an abstract philosophical way, no a literal way, but I don't go to Church, Catholics don't go to art galleries.

 Quote:
No offense to anybody intended here. Just stating my views.
What if the artist had said that, though? The exhibition would still be closed.

 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
Setting all moral feelings aside, and stepping back and viewing it as just a sculpture in general, I happen to think that it is a very ugly piece of art.
But you're using "ugly" as if it's part of a moralistic scale, no? As if as a term it is immediately a negative description, a put-down, a criticism. But ugliness can be a very intentional, deliberate, beautiful, necessary thing in Art. The rape scene in Irreversible is horrifying, realistic, violent, and many people I know that have seen the film have been disgusted by it and might call it "ugly". But it's a beautiful scene because it was intending to be ugly. To me you've not set all moral feelings aside, because you've not opened up the wealth of potential in the criticisms you're choosing.

I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that this is chocolate. Imagine the difficulty and skill which would have been required in getting a life-size, anatomically correct, rightly-portioned body like that made out of chocolate. Look at the immense detail of the hands! The way the torso hangs and the way the stomach goes in once the rib cage ends. It's brilliant.

Last edited by Capo de La Cosa Nostra; 04/01/07 09:19 AM.

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Discussing whether or not the Brother is hardcore?
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: Capo de La Cosa Nostra] #380731
04/01/07 09:51 AM
04/01/07 09:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
R
ronnierocketAGO Offline
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R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
Capo is absolutely right.

Besides, would Jesus be offended?

Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #380740
04/01/07 10:57 AM
04/01/07 10:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
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Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
Capo is absolutely right.

Besides, would Jesus be offended?


I'm not sure that He would be offended; I'm not sure that He would be impressed.

Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: klydon1] #380741
04/01/07 10:58 AM
04/01/07 10:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
R
ronnierocketAGO Offline
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East Tennessee
You're right.

Jesus would be too busy being nailed.

Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #380744
04/01/07 11:07 AM
04/01/07 11:07 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,455
California
X
XDCX Offline
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X

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California
That reminds me of a quick little joke from The Sopranos. I think it was Phil Leotardo who told it.

"Jesus was up on the Cross. He leaned down and told Paul "I can see your house from here."


"Growing up my dad was like 'You have a great last name, Galifianakis. Galifianakis...begins with a gal...and ends with a kiss...' I'm like that's great dad, can we get it changed to 'Galifianafuck' please?" -- Zach Galifianakis



Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: XDCX] #380745
04/01/07 11:08 AM
04/01/07 11:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
Capo de La Cosa Nostra Offline
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Gateshead, UK
They should ban that show!


...dot com bold typeface rhetoric.
You go clickety click and get your head split.
'The hell you look like on a message board
Discussing whether or not the Brother is hardcore?
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: XDCX] #380766
04/01/07 12:43 PM
04/01/07 12:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
O
olivant Offline
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Texas
 Originally Posted By: XDCX
That reminds me of a quick little joke from The Sopranos. I think it was Phil Leotardo who told it.

"Jesus was up on the Cross. He leaned down and told Paul "I can see your house from here."


I've heard a number of Jesus jokes over the years. That's one of the better ones (he actually told Peter). I like the comedian who said he belonged to a religion that believes that Jesus didn't die on the cross - actually, he died when he slipped and fell down in the shower. That's why instead of a crucifix, they wear soap on a rope around their necks.

Last edited by olivant; 04/01/07 12:44 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: olivant] #380774
04/01/07 01:30 PM
04/01/07 01:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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New York
This debate can go on and on. Art is in the eye of the beholder. Just because this sculptor did something controversial or provocative doesn't make him Howard Roark, suffering for his art, standing by his beliefs in the face of lesser beings. I don't see the aesthetics that you do, Capo, which is why art is so subjective. As a Catholic, I found it offensive. As a lover of sculpture, I found it offensive on a different level. I just don't like it, and I don't believe that my Catholocism is tainting my opinion.

Capo, your post infers that anyone is who doesn't like it is an unenlightened prig. I don't think that's the case. I think that those that want to see it should be allowed, and those that are offended by it should walk past the gallery and keep going.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Chocolate Jesus Angers Catholics [Re: Sicilian Babe] #380785
04/01/07 01:49 PM
04/01/07 01:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
Capo de La Cosa Nostra Offline
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Gateshead, UK
Art is subjective, beauty is subjective, yadayadaya. I keep saying that those things go without saying. We shouldn't need to hide behind that "different strokes for different folks" business. But nor should we be censoring things.

All I was doing was saying why I sort of like the sculpture, for the very reason it's made out of chocolate - and, like I said, I'd expect it to have been very difficult to pull off. But it was pulled off, and because of that I like it.

 Quote:
Capo, your post infers that anyone is who doesn't like it is an unenlightened prig.
Not sure what you mean by this.

 Quote:
I think that those that want to see it should be allowed, and those that are offended by it should walk past the gallery and keep going.
I very much agree. That was what my post was touching upon. Art galleries are sort of havens for artists, they're like churches for the art-inclined. And the stuff that's inside them should exist - and does exist, physically - outside of any religious order or House of God.


...dot com bold typeface rhetoric.
You go clickety click and get your head split.
'The hell you look like on a message board
Discussing whether or not the Brother is hardcore?
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