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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: Don Cardi]
#413170
07/10/07 08:17 AM
07/10/07 08:17 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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How did Geary know that The Corleones were about to move Klingman out and take over the Tropicala?
Did this information come from the Roth camp, possibly leaked through Questadt? Fredo blabbed.
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#413280
07/10/07 12:07 PM
07/10/07 12:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Michael's "Turnbull is a good man" was merely sarcasm, in my opinion. I think it was because Turnbull had briefed the Senator about Michael's moving Klingman out. I also agree with the idea that Turnbull got this information from Queastat.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: dontomasso]
#413304
07/10/07 12:42 PM
07/10/07 12:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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I believe we had a discussion about his once before, circulating around the seemingly surprised look on Michael's and Tom's faces when Geary makes his revelation. The surprised look is not a response to Geary knowing Michael's plan, IMO. As Geary said, "The LAH-sense will be in Klingman's name." In order for Michael or his representatives to get on the license, or to get Klingman off the license, they'd have to file an application, which is a public process. And, as I've posted before, I believe Turnbull was Geary's political bagman--an intermediary between Geary and the people who need to bribe him to get his political favors.
The logic, IMO, is that Michael knew all this, and had arranged with Turnbull beforehand to bribe Geary through him in order to get on the license. If you accept that, you might conclude that the surprised look is in response not to Geary knowing that Michael was going to move Klingman out (he'd know that through Turnbull or through a public filing), but in response to Geary's saying "That will leave you with a problem..." Why should he have a problem if he'd already paid off through Turnbull? Notice that the first thing Michael says after hearing about his "problem" is, "Turnbull's a good man," which I interpret to mean, "I already took care of you through Turnbull. Why should I have a problem?"
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: dontomasso]
#413311
07/10/07 12:56 PM
07/10/07 12:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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Because, as he said, "Ah intend to squeeze you. Ah don't lahk your kinda people..." He was both greedy and bigoted; and he used the bigotry to justify his greed, as when he said, "...comin' out to his clean country..."
If you saw "Casino," you'll remember somewhat the same argument when the County Commissioner (L.Q. Jones) demands that DeNiro put his useless brother in law back on the casino payroll. DeNiro refuses, and the Commish says, "You people just will never understand that you're here as guests, and that we can ship you back where you came from." That's the same sense of "ownership" (and bigotry, as in "you people") that Geary was expressing to Michael: "We own this state, you don't."
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#413611
07/10/07 10:33 PM
07/10/07 10:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 102
90caliber
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 102
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Michael's "Turnbull is a good man" was merely sarcasm, in my opinion. I think this is correct. According to the second draft of the screenplay, which I think can justifiably be appealed to here, Turnbull fed Tom a string of lies about Geary being squeamish about being bribed in a direct fashion (rather than through a "charitable donation to a cause Geary controls," as Tom puts it in the 2nd draft), so of course he and Michael were quite surprised when Geary came out swinging with his hefty demands. I'm actually inclined to think that Michael might have been under the impression that Geary's bribe money was to be a cut from the "magnificent contribution" to the university. The rest was for the purpose of polishing Michael's public image. (Notice that Geary, when speaking to the guests, doesn't say how much the check is for -- the amount of the donation to Sicily in GFIII is made explicit, and in general large donations to universities are announced, in press releases, etc., with the dollar amount specified.)
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: 90caliber]
#413615
07/10/07 10:57 PM
07/10/07 10:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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Michael's "Turnbull is a good man" was merely sarcasm, in my opinion. I think this is correct. According to the second draft of the screenplay, which I think can justifiably be appealed to here, Turnbull fed Tom a string of lies about Geary being squeamish about being bribed in a direct fashion (rather than through a "charitable donation to a cause Geary controls," as Tom puts it in the 2nd draft), so of course he and Michael were quite surprised when Geary came out swinging with his hefty demands. I'm actually inclined to think that Michael might have been under the impression that Geary's bribe money was to be a cut from the "magnificent contribution" to the university. The rest was for the purpose of polishing Michael's public image. (Notice that Geary, when speaking to the guests, doesn't say how much the check is for -- the amount of the donation to Sicily in GFIII is made explicit, and in general large donations to universities are announced, in press releases, etc., with the dollar amount specified.) Well, he doesn't name the univesity either. That is a typical ploy by film makers who may choose not to mention an institution or it could have been that the producers couldn't get permission from one or more universities to use their name. In the same vein, sometimes film makers don't cite a a dollar amount for any number of reasons. For one, a dollar amount can become outdate (due to inflation) as time goes by.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: olivant]
#413617
07/10/07 11:03 PM
07/10/07 11:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 102
90caliber
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 102
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Michael's "Turnbull is a good man" was merely sarcasm, in my opinion. I think this is correct. According to the second draft of the screenplay, which I think can justifiably be appealed to here, Turnbull fed Tom a string of lies about Geary being squeamish about being bribed in a direct fashion (rather than through a "charitable donation to a cause Geary controls," as Tom puts it in the 2nd draft), so of course he and Michael were quite surprised when Geary came out swinging with his hefty demands. I'm actually inclined to think that Michael might have been under the impression that Geary's bribe money was to be a cut from the "magnificent contribution" to the university. The rest was for the purpose of polishing Michael's public image. (Notice that Geary, when speaking to the guests, doesn't say how much the check is for -- the amount of the donation to Sicily in GFIII is made explicit, and in general large donations to universities are announced, in press releases, etc., with the dollar amount specified.) Well, he doesn't name the univesity either. That is a typical ploy by film makers who may choose not to mention an institution or it could have been that the producers couldn't get permission from one or more universities to use their name. In the same vein, sometimes film makers don't cite a a dollar amount for any number of reasons. For one, a dollar amount can become outdate (due to inflation) as time goes by. All of that was an afterthought, so I put it in parentheses. What are your impressions of the rest of it?
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: 90caliber]
#413744
07/11/07 11:30 AM
07/11/07 11:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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Michael's "Turnbull is a good man" was merely sarcasm, in my opinion. I think this is correct. According to the second draft of the screenplay, which I think can justifiably be appealed to here, Turnbull fed Tom a string of lies about Geary being squeamish about being bribed in a direct fashion (rather than through a "charitable donation to a cause Geary controls," as Tom puts it in the 2nd draft), so of course he and Michael were quite surprised when Geary came out swinging with his hefty demands. I'm actually inclined to think that Michael might have been under the impression that Geary's bribe money was to be a cut from the "magnificent contribution" to the university. The rest was for the purpose of polishing Michael's public image. (Notice that Geary, when speaking to the guests, doesn't say how much the check is for -- the amount of the donation to Sicily in GFIII is made explicit, and in general large donations to universities are announced, in press releases, etc., with the dollar amount specified.) Well, he doesn't name the univesity either. That is a typical ploy by film makers who may choose not to mention an institution or it could have been that the producers couldn't get permission from one or more universities to use their name. In the same vein, sometimes film makers don't cite a a dollar amount for any number of reasons. For one, a dollar amount can become outdate (due to inflation) as time goes by. All of that was an afterthought, so I put it in parentheses. What are your impressions of the rest of it? Well, as I posted previously, I think that some money had already passed before the meeting between the Corleones and Geary. That would be a deposit by Mike on future favors he would request and pay for from Geary. Just as Vito had a senator in his pocket, Geary would be Mike's senator. But Geary's squeeze of Mike was probably a total surprise to everyone concerned, even Turnbull. As Geary said to Mike, "I thought we would talk alone." Sure, Mike and Geary knew about the technical problem with the license at the Tropigala and both expected some money to change hands to resolve the problem. But the "from all four hotels" comment by Geary made it clear that he was thinking outside the envelope and it was not anticipated by anyone.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: olivant]
#413760
07/11/07 12:43 PM
07/11/07 12:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 102
90caliber
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 102
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But Geary's squeeze of Mike was probably a total surprise to everyone concerned, even Turnbull. As Geary said to Mike, "I thought we would talk alone." It certainly was a surprise to Mike and his men, but I'm not sure about Turnbull. Geary ends the meeting by saying that Mike has to deal with Turnbull, meaning that the "squeeze" payments will go through him. So what purpose would it serve for Geary to keep Turnbull in the dark up to the meeting date, since he would have to inform him immediately afterwards that a monthly truckload of extorted cash would be coming in from the Corleones?
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: 90caliber]
#414263
07/12/07 03:18 PM
07/12/07 03:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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Michael's "Turnbull is a good man" was merely sarcasm, in my opinion. I think this is correct. According to the second draft of the screenplay, which I think can justifiably be appealed to here, Turnbull fed Tom a string of lies about Geary being squeamish about being bribed in a direct fashion (rather than through a "charitable donation to a cause Geary controls," as Tom puts it in the 2nd draft), so of course he and Michael were quite surprised when Geary came out swinging with his hefty demands. All of the films in the trilogy went through multiple script treatments, some with radically different outcomes. While those earlier screenplays are often fascinating, what counts is what FFC intended us to see in his final cut. On that basis, I thought Michael looked surprised when Geary said that he'd have a problem taking over Klingman's license. Michael's "Turnbull is a good man" struck me not as sarcasm, but a reminde: "Hey, I thought I already took care of that through Turnbull, your bagman." It is possible that some or all of the material about Turnbull and his relationship to the Corleones was filmed, then discarded--either in the interest of cutting the film's already prodigious length, or because the plotline was superfluous or didn't really fit. So, "Turnbull is a good man" could have been a left-over reference in a different context involving an abandonded scene or story line. I thought it flowed well as a statement of surprise. 90 cal, you may recall that, more than a year ago, an alert paisan here spotted Questadt, the Senate lawyer, sitting in a chair behind Roth in the American businessmens' meeting with Batista in Havana. That was a jolt. Questadt had no rational for being in that scene--none whatsoever. He never had a line of dialog or a face-to-face with Michael or Roth, and didn't appear again until he turned up as the inquisitor in the Senate hearing. If his appearance in Havana had been intentional, Michael would have remembered him sitting behind Roth, would have recognized him at the Senate hearing, and would never have perjured himself. I guessed at the time that Questadt must have gotten a bigger role in an earlier script treatment. Sure enough, another paisan posted an earlier script in which Michael and Tom had dealings with Questadt before Havana. Obviously it was cut out to shorten the movie and to beef up the perjury trap factor at the Senate hearing. So, why did FFC leave Questadt in that Havana scene? A guess is that he liked the way the scene played out, couldn't film it over because it had been done on location in the Dominican Republic--and figured that nobody'd notice Questadt. He nver counted on the sharpies on this board... 
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: Turnbull]
#414279
07/12/07 03:47 PM
07/12/07 03:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
ScarFather
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
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Michael's "Turnbull is a good man" struck me not as sarcasm, but a reminde: "Hey, I thought I already took care of that through Turnbull, your bagman." So, "Turnbull is a good man" could have been a left-over reference in a different context involving an abandonded scene or story line. I thought it flowed well as a statement of surprise.
Yes... even if the "Turnbull is a good man" from another set of film scenes... it seems to fit. I agree that its an indirect way of saying "I took care of that with Turnbull already"... And another way "never tell anyone outside the family what you are "REALLY" thinking" - it meant that I already paid... but he never says "I already paid for that"... so in a court of law... he could never be convicted
"What I want.... whats most important to me... is that I have a guarantee" - Train approaches.... Bang! Bang! Bang!
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: ScarFather]
#414377
07/12/07 06:49 PM
07/12/07 06:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,474
Ice
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,474
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Sooo...why is Geary at the party?  Who invited him?  Did Michael invite the Senator to give him the rest of that "down payment" on the Klingman Casino?  -From what I can tell it seems that Mike must have invited Geary to give him/the University that final piece of the "magnificent endowment." -Mike/Tom must have been surprised when Geary "turned up the squeeze." -"Turnbull is a good man.." was Mike's way of saying.."Uhm..I've already dealt w/ your man, Turnbull. The fact that you are further squeezing me is ridiculous."
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: Ice]
#414421
07/12/07 07:46 PM
07/12/07 07:46 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
ScarFather
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 295
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Sooo...why is Geary at the party?  Who invited him?  Did Michael invite the Senator to give him the rest of that "down payment" on the Klingman Casino?  -From what I can tell it seems that Mike must have invited Geary to give him/the University that final piece of the "magnificent endowment." -Mike/Tom must have been surprised when Geary "turned up the squeeze." -"Turnbull is a good man.." was Mike's way of saying.."Uhm..I've already dealt w/ your man, Turnbull. The fact that you are further squeezing me is ridiculous." Why are you asking more questions? What do you think this is? A bulletin board where people come to talk about and debate topics?? The nerve of you 
"What I want.... whats most important to me... is that I have a guarantee" - Train approaches.... Bang! Bang! Bang!
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: Ice]
#414489
07/12/07 11:41 PM
07/12/07 11:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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Sooo...why is Geary at the party?  Who invited him?  Did Michael invite the Senator to give him the rest of that "down payment" on the Klingman Casino?  -From what I can tell it seems that Mike must have invited Geary to give him/the University that final piece of the "magnificent endowment." -Mike/Tom must have been surprised when Geary "turned up the squeeze." -"Turnbull is a good man.." was Mike's way of saying.."Uhm..I've already dealt w/ your man, Turnbull. The fact that you are further squeezing me is ridiculous." It was probably Tom who invited Geary through Turnbull. Yes, Geary would be there to share some of the spotlight over Mike's donation and it would serve as a cover for them to discuss business. As I posted above, I think Geary surprised everyone with his squeeze demand.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: How did Geary Know?
[Re: olivant]
#414517
07/13/07 03:39 AM
07/13/07 03:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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Yes. In addition, Geary saw an opportunity to cash in on (no pun intended) Michael's "magnificent endowment" to the state university. It had to help him politically that he was photographed with that check--as if to say that he had something to do with Michael's big donation. Nevada politicians of that era knew that gangsters were behind the casino industry. They welcomed the gangsters because they were bringing money to the state--to say nothing of the contributions and bribes gangsters paid to the politicians. They had to be careful of being photographed with gangsters in public. But, Michael's donation to the university gave Geary a gold-plated opportunity to meet with Michael, safely. If a political opponent accused him of being too close to Michael, a known Mafia boss, Geary would have said, "I was there to accept a big donation to the state university, not to schmooze a gangster."
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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