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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: johnny ola]
#417907
07/20/07 05:36 PM
07/20/07 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 9
completely_legitimate
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We all know how Fredo was able to supply entertainment for Mike's guest, but wasn't it sort of odd for Mike to put him charge of providing the entertainment, since Fredo was never in Cuba before? I would think Mike would have used the hotel's "social director". Fredo said that Ola had taken him to the club where the sex show was being staged. I think that means he had to have been in Cuba before this trip.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: completely_legitimate]
#417926
07/20/07 07:57 PM
07/20/07 07:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
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We all know how Fredo was able to supply entertainment for Mike's guest, but wasn't it sort of odd for Mike to put him charge of providing the entertainment, since Fredo was never in Cuba before? I would think Mike would have used the hotel's "social director". Fredo said that Ola had taken him to the club where the sex show was being staged. I think that means he had to have been in Cuba before this trip. Yes, but Michael didn't know that.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: olivant]
#417935
07/20/07 10:06 PM
07/20/07 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 9
completely_legitimate
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Posts: 9
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Yes, but Michael didn't know that.
The only reason Michael would have had for asking Fredo to arrange the evening's entertainment would be if he knew Fredo had been to Cuba before and expected him to know what to do. Fredo had been working casinos since the days of Moe Green and would have had many opportunities to go before. Michael just didn't know that Fredo had hooked up with Ola on one of his previous trips.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: completely_legitimate]
#417945
07/20/07 11:30 PM
07/20/07 11:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
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Yes, but Michael didn't know that.
The only reason Michael would have had for asking Fredo to arrange the evening's entertainment would be if he knew Fredo had been to Cuba before and expected him to know what to do. Fredo had been working casinos since the days of Moe Green and would have had many opportunities to go before. Michael just didn't know that Fredo had hooked up with Ola on one of his previous trips. So, why does Fredo ask if he knows anyone in Havana? There's nothing in the novel or films to indicate that Fredo had ever been to Cuba before.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: olivant]
#417949
07/21/07 12:03 AM
07/21/07 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393 Tampa, Florida
johnny ola
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Yes, but Michael didn't know that.
The only reason Michael would have had for asking Fredo to arrange the evening's entertainment would be if he knew Fredo had been to Cuba before and expected him to know what to do. Fredo had been working casinos since the days of Moe Green and would have had many opportunities to go before. Michael just didn't know that Fredo had hooked up with Ola on one of his previous trips. So, why does Fredo ask if he knows anyone in Havana? There's nothing in the novel or films to indicate that Fredo had ever been to Cuba before. From Fredo's dialogue it seemed to me that he was never in Cuba before. Also after some thought, it seems to me, that Mike asked Fredo to show the government people a good time, just to keep him busy and out of the way, plus as Fredo said "it was his speciality"
I love my Chrysler and tuna fish sandwiches.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: johnny ola]
#418005
07/21/07 05:44 AM
07/21/07 05:44 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 168
wtwt5237
Made Member
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Made Member
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Posts: 168
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From Fredo's dialogue it seemed to me that he was never in Cuba before.
He pretended to be new to Cuba just to trick Micheal into believing he didn't know Roth.
One has only one destiny, he cannot choose it.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: wtwt5237]
#418006
07/21/07 05:49 AM
07/21/07 05:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539 My own world.
whisper
Underboss
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Joined: Jun 2007
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My own world.
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From Fredo's dialogue it seemed to me that he was never in Cuba before.
He pretended to be new to Cuba just to trick Micheal into believing he didn't know Roth. Thats exactly what i think.
The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: wtwt5237]
#418022
07/21/07 09:04 AM
07/21/07 09:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393 Tampa, Florida
johnny ola
OP
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393
Tampa, Florida
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From Fredo's dialogue it seemed to me that he was never in Cuba before.
He pretended to be new to Cuba just to trick Micheal into believing he didn't know Roth. Interesting theory, but one I don't completely subscribe to. We all know that Fredo wasnt smart enough to trick Mike, and it appears that Mike was completely taken back when Fredo made the revalation of Johnny Ola at the superman show. I also think that Mike was constantly aware of Fredo's movements while he was in Las Vegas, and if Fredo was gone for at least 3-4 days, Mike would have known and questioned Fredo.
I love my Chrysler and tuna fish sandwiches.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: johnny ola]
#418057
07/21/07 12:22 PM
07/21/07 12:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
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From Fredo's dialogue it seemed to me that he was never in Cuba before.
He pretended to be new to Cuba just to trick Micheal into believing he didn't know Roth. Interesting theory, but one I don't completely subscribe to. We all know that Fredo wasnt smart enough to trick Mike, and it appears that Mike was completely taken back when Fredo made the revalation of Johnny Ola at the superman show. I also think that Mike was constantly aware of Fredo's movements while he was in Las Vegas, and if Fredo was gone for at least 3-4 days, Mike would have known and questioned Fredo. Ola, you're making alot of assumptions that don't merit your speculative conslusions. Pacino's acting skills properly conveyed his characters devastation upon the realization that not only had Fredo led him on about not knowing Roth and being in Cuba before, but that Fredo might very well be the traitor in the family.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: olivant]
#418072
07/21/07 12:35 PM
07/21/07 12:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393 Tampa, Florida
johnny ola
OP
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393
Tampa, Florida
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From Fredo's dialogue it seemed to me that he was never in Cuba before.
He pretended to be new to Cuba just to trick Micheal into believing he didn't know Roth. Interesting theory, but one I don't completely subscribe to. We all know that Fredo wasnt smart enough to trick Mike, and it appears that Mike was completely taken back when Fredo made the revalation of Johnny Ola at the superman show. I also think that Mike was constantly aware of Fredo's movements while he was in Las Vegas, and if Fredo was gone for at least 3-4 days, Mike would have known and questioned Fredo. Ola, you're making alot of assumptions that don't merit your speculative conslusions. Pacino's acting skills properly conveyed his characters devastation upon the realization that not only had Fredo led him on about not knowing Roth and being in Cuba before, but that Fredo might very well be the traitor in the family. I believe at the foudation of all these discussions and questions are assumptions and speculation. In any event, just for the sake of discussion, isn't it possible that Johnny Ola could have shown Fredo where the superman show was between the time Mike asked him to provide entertainment and they actually got there?
I love my Chrysler and tuna fish sandwiches.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: johnny ola]
#418141
07/21/07 07:33 PM
07/21/07 07:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
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From Fredo's dialogue it seemed to me that he was never in Cuba before.
He pretended to be new to Cuba just to trick Micheal into believing he didn't know Roth. Interesting theory, but one I don't completely subscribe to. We all know that Fredo wasnt smart enough to trick Mike, and it appears that Mike was completely taken back when Fredo made the revalation of Johnny Ola at the superman show. I also think that Mike was constantly aware of Fredo's movements while he was in Las Vegas, and if Fredo was gone for at least 3-4 days, Mike would have known and questioned Fredo. Ola, you're making alot of assumptions that don't merit your speculative conslusions. Pacino's acting skills properly conveyed his characters devastation upon the realization that not only had Fredo led him on about not knowing Roth and being in Cuba before, but that Fredo might very well be the traitor in the family. I believe at the foudation of all these discussions and questions are assumptions and speculation. In any event, just for the sake of discussion, isn't it possible that Johnny Ola could have shown Fredo where the superman show was between the time Mike asked him to provide entertainment and they actually got there? The relationship is between assumptions and speculations, not that there should not be any assumptions or speculations. If Ola had told Fredo about such shows, it's not likely that Fredo would have commeneted that Roth would never patronize such shows.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: olivant]
#418161
07/21/07 09:29 PM
07/21/07 09:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
AZ
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Johnny, although you might infer from Fredo's put-on naive attitude that he hadn't been to Cuba before, he didn't literally say that: he asked if there was anyone in Havana that he knew. I think C_L is right in assuming that Fredo, as a veteran of the Nevada casino and brothel biz, would have had occasion to visit Cuba earlier (millions of Americans did); and in any event, an old whoremaster/two-at-a-time, cocktail-waitress-banger like Fredo could be relied on to sniff out some "good times" for raunchy politicians even if Michael had been hosting them in Stalinist Moscow.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: olivant]
#418169
07/21/07 10:34 PM
07/21/07 10:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393 Tampa, Florida
johnny ola
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393
Tampa, Florida
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From Fredo's dialogue it seemed to me that he was never in Cuba before.
He pretended to be new to Cuba just to trick Micheal into believing he didn't know Roth. Interesting theory, but one I don't completely subscribe to. We all know that Fredo wasnt smart enough to trick Mike, and it appears that Mike was completely taken back when Fredo made the revalation of Johnny Ola at the superman show. I also think that Mike was constantly aware of Fredo's movements while he was in Las Vegas, and if Fredo was gone for at least 3-4 days, Mike would have known and questioned Fredo. Ola, you're making alot of assumptions that don't merit your speculative conslusions. Pacino's acting skills properly conveyed his characters devastation upon the realization that not only had Fredo led him on about not knowing Roth and being in Cuba before, but that Fredo might very well be the traitor in the family. I believe at the foudation of all these discussions and questions are assumptions and speculation. In any event, just for the sake of discussion, isn't it possible that Johnny Ola could have shown Fredo where the superman show was between the time Mike asked him to provide entertainment and they actually got there? The relationship is between assumptions and speculations, not that there should not be any assumptions or speculations. If Ola had told Fredo about such shows, it's not likely that Fredo would have commeneted that Roth would never patronize such shows. Isn't it a fact that Ola did tell and show Fredo about the superman show? And didn't Fredo comment that Roth would never go to these types of shows? FREDO JOHNNY OLA told me about this place. He brought me here. I didn't believe him -- but seein' is believin', huh? [MICHAEL glances over at FREDO.] JUDGE DEMALCO I see it, and I still don't believe it! FREDO Fifty bucks, Pat. Old Man ROTH would never come here, but Old Man JOHNNY knows these places like the back of his hand. Now watch him -- he's gonna break a cracked with it.
I love my Chrysler and tuna fish sandwiches.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: Turnbull]
#418170
07/21/07 10:40 PM
07/21/07 10:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393 Tampa, Florida
johnny ola
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393
Tampa, Florida
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Johnny, although you might infer from Fredo's put-on naive attitude that he hadn't been to Cuba before, he didn't literally say that: he asked if there was anyone in Havana that he knew. I think C_L is right in assuming that Fredo, as a veteran of the Nevada casino and brothel biz, would have had occasion to visit Cuba earlier (millions of Americans did); and in any event, an old whoremaster/two-at-a-time, cocktail-waitress-banger like Fredo could be relied on to sniff out some "good times" for raunchy politicians even if Michael had been hosting them in Stalinist Moscow. I can agree that it is very possible that Fredo had previously been to Cuba and didn't want Mike to know, and yes, there is no doubt that person such as Fredo would have no problem sniffing out places of adult entertainment, but the fact does remain that Fredo gave Johnny Ola credit for finding the Superman show, whick leads me to think that Fredo was never in Cuba before, or that Johnny Ola was a better "sniffer" then Fredo, which considering Ola's style of dress doesn't seem very plausible.
I love my Chrysler and tuna fish sandwiches.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: johnny ola]
#418359
07/22/07 08:18 PM
07/22/07 08:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 165 Boat House
Carson_Corleone
The Best and Brightest Son
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The Best and Brightest Son
Made Member
Joined: Jun 2007
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Boat House
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Partying was Fredo's specialty, as Fredo himself said. I assume he could party in Antartica if he had to.
-In my HOME!!! In my BEDROOM WHERE MY WIFE SLEEPS!! Where my children come and play with their toys. In my home.
-My father taught me many things here -- he taught me in this room. He taught me -- keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: johnny ola]
#418434
07/23/07 02:35 AM
07/23/07 02:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,714
AZ
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Partying was Fredo's specialty, as Fredo himself said. I assume he could party in Antartica if he had to. True, but he would have had problem finding ice for the drinks "Ya might try one a them Penguin Libres..."
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: dontomasso]
#418536
07/23/07 02:19 PM
07/23/07 02:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 9
completely_legitimate
Associate
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Associate
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What I didn't understand about Fredo in Cuba was that he didn't know how to say "bannana daquari" but he knew about "them local drinks like cuba libres and pina coladas." He also knew enough Spanish to tell Geary he could have that read head "con gusto." He knew the name of the drink, of course, but was asking how to say it in Spanish, not realizing that the name already was Spanish. Doesn't seem to me like such an unlikely lapse in knowledge for an American in the 1950's. Fredo was probably ahead of most at the time just knowing there was such a thing as a banana daiquiri.
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Re: Fredo in Cuba.
[Re: johnny ola]
#418621
07/23/07 10:00 PM
07/23/07 10:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539 My own world.
whisper
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
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Also note that when Fredo's playing dumb, you see a genuine smile on Michael's face, as if for the moment, he didn't think it was Fredo who was the traitor.
The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
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