The reason I'm starting this thread is to try and avoid the dreaded "try the search function" in answer to forum newbie questions, something I plan to do over the next few weeks, anyway.

Maybe other newbies will feel comfortable enough to add their "newbie questions" here as well, without starting a new thread each time.

Since I have had an opportunity to watch The Trilogy several times on AMC and Bravo over the past several days, I am now hooked. Fortunately for me, I ran across this forum through a Google search, and plan to study all of the threads over time.

However, there are some burning questions I have as I begin my quest to understand all the plot intricacies. (I have not read the books either). More than likely these questions have been asked before, but I need to know now, and ask for your indulgence . . .

1. (Part II) Vito Corleone was 9 years old when he came to America. He was married and had his first child (Santino) in 1917, right? Do we khow how old was Vito in 1917?

2. (Part II) Was Tessio the young guy who invited Vito to go to the theater with him to see his girlfriend/actress, and later told Don Fenucci to "sit down" inside the theater?

3. (Part II) Vito hides the pistols and later meets their owner, young Clemenza, who helps him steal a rug for his wife. What was the baby's name that Clemenza set on the new rug?

4. (Part II) Was this young Clemenza the same "fat" Clemenza of the 1940's, who later "dies of a heart attack?"

5. (Part II) Was Tessio the other guy at the Corleone dinner table with Vito and Clemenza the day Vito offered to take $50 from each of them and settle with Don Fenucci?

6. (Part II) How much time passed between the rug theft and the murder of Don Fanucci?

7. (Part II) Immediately after the murder, Vito returns to the stoop in front of his apartment and sits down with his wife and children. Santino appears to be about 6, and a "chubby" Fredo (obviously healed up from his bout with pneumonia) about 12 months older than baby Michael who Vito holds. Have I properly identified the children?

Bonus question: Does anyone recall a scene in GF or Part II where Godfather Michael smiles?


Thanks to anyone who take the time to answer.

1. He was 24 when he started down the path to being the Godfather about the time he murdered Fanucci.

2. No, Genco

3. Santino

4. Yes.

5. Yes.

6. Well, it seems you have to go by the age of Sonny, but that seems too long.

7. Yes.

Michael barely manages a smile when he sees Kay at her school.

Olivant pretty much has it covered. But Michael smiles in Part I when he asks Kay if she likes her lasagne.

2. (Part II) Was Tessio the young guy who invited Vito to go to the theater with him to see his girlfriend/actress, and later told Don Fenucci to "sit down" inside the theater?

-No that was Genco, whose father owned the grocery store young Vito worked in, and eventually became Vito's consigleri



4. (Part II) Was this young Clemenza the same "fat" Clemenza of the 1940's, who later "dies of a heart attack?"

Yes

5. (Part II) Was Tessio the other guy at the Corleone dinner table with Vito and Clemenza the day Vito offered to take $50 from each of them and settle with Don Fenucci?

Yes



7. (Part II) Immediately after the murder, Vito returns to the stoop in front of his apartment and sits down with his wife and children. Santino appears to be about 6, and a "chubby" Fredo (obviously healed up from his bout with pneumonia) about 12 months older than baby Michael who Vito holds. Have I properly identified the children?

Yes

I think Mike cracked a couple of smiles when he was talking with Fredo in outside having drinks with him, and possibly once with Roth in Miami, when asked if he followed sports.

Welcome, .45ACP [big slow round]. You've posted in the right spirit for these boards.


Dates are all over the place. In GF, the tombstone shown at his burial shows his birthdate in April 1887, which would make him 13 in 1900, when GFII opens. But he looks younger in that GFII opening scene--about 9 years old, which would jibe with a birth year of 1891. The flashback at the end of GFII shows Vito's birthday as December 7, not April 29, which is what's inscribed on his tombstone in GF. Go figure...
As for Santino: we never know his exact age in the films. The novel says he was 35 in 1945, giving him a birth year of 1910, same as Tom.



That was Genco, not Tessio.


That was Fredo.


Yes.


Yes again.


Not much time. Since Vito was out of work and his family presumably starving, he'd have had to have acted soon.


Yes, broadly. I say "broadly" because the movie timelines are inexact compared with the novel's timelines, which aren't exactly models of precision, either. But that's not a big deal: we know the sequence of births of the Corleone children, and that's the important thing.


In a deleted scene from GF, Michael is positively giddy in bed with Kay in a hotel in NYC, when he calls Tom to say he'll be coming to the family Xmas gathering at the Mall--prior to Vito being shot. I think I discerned the ghost of a smile on his face in Havana when Roth said, "The doctors would disagree, but what do they know?"
The only actor who smiled less than Pacino in the Trilogy was Robert Stack in the run of "The Untouchables" on TV.

So it appears that about 6 years passed between the rug theft and the murder of Fanucci.

If Vito was 9 when he came to America, and Santino was born in 1917, then Vito was approximately 32 years old when he murdered Fanucci. I'm guessing Vito was about 5-6 years older than Clemenza and Tessio.

In the movie, it appeared that Vito (Brandon) was older than Tessio and much older than Clemenza.

[/quote]
In a deleted scene from GF, Michael is positively giddy in bed with Kay in a hotel in NYC, when he calls Tom to say he'll be coming to the family Xmas gathering at the Mall--prior to Vito being shot. I think I discerned the ghost of a smile on his face in Havana when Roth said, "The doctors would disagree, but what do they know?"
The only actor who smiled less than Pacino in the Trilogy was Robert Stack in the run of "The Untouchables" on TV. [/quote]

I thought I was the only that noticed that about Robert Stack.

TB, you can hear them say Santino to the baby on the rug.

Just when I thought I was wrong and deleted my answer because of TB's post, they pull me back in.

No. Don't figure in the numbers Turnbull gave you (they become way too confusing when you try to reconcile what the movie figures against what is in the novel).

Its generally accepted that Sonny was born in 1916 (although I believe Part II may have suggested it was 1917). In any event, according to Part II only, Vito was 9 years old when he arrived in the U.S. in 1901. His birthday was December 7th (remember the end of the movue flashback when Fredo said that the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor on Pop's birthday), so that meant Vito was born in 1891. Assuming that Vito killed Fanucci in 1920 (when Mike was an infant) he would have been about 28 years old. I'd say it was more like three years that passed between the theft of the rug and Fanucci's murder.

At the end of partII the flash back scene doesn't Mike crack a little smile when Sonny intoduces Carlo to him?

I think so Mignon, Michael also smiles when he's dancing with Appolonia at his wedding.

It's always a wonder to me why Puzo and FFC didn't make GFII more consistent with the novel. For example, the novel says that while in Sicily Vito was a real man at age 12. So, why 9?

Exactly. That's why I said, "Go figure..."

A possible reason for the discrepancies between Vito's birthdate of 1887 in GF, and 1891 in II, is that GF didn't show Vito's early years, nor was there any plan for GFII when GF was released. So, according to his tombstone in GF, Vito was 68 when he died in 1955--consistent with Brando's appearance in the heart attack scene.
II opens with that dramatic and stage-setting tale of Don Ciccio's massacre of young Vito's family and his escape. Drama, I believe, was greatly enhanced by showing a nine-year-old escaping the evil Don's clutches, than if he'd been a 13-year-old making his escape.
As SC said, it's pointless to try to reconcile dates in the novel with those in the films. The novel says Vito was 12 when his mother sent him to America to escape Ciccio's clutches. The time frame referred to is "...at the turn of the century...", which could encompass a wide range of years--say, from 1890 to 1910, or if you prefer, 1895-1905. Puzo left himself plenty of wiggle-room. What's more, a 12-year-old Vito is more credible as going to work in the Abbandando grocery than a 9-year-old Vito.

Why did the Cuban soldiers come marching into the hospital, where Hymen Roth was being treated, and immediately pull out a gun and shoot Michael's body guard (who was in the process of smothering Roth?)

I believe it was Fredo that tipped off the Cuban soldiers. When Fredo is scurrying off and Michael asks where he's going Fredo says, "I gotta get a real drink." And Michael gives him a suspicious look. I believe that suspicion was justified. A "real drink"? Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

There's no other way the soldiers would march in there unannounced, for no reason.

Yes, there is. Castro was moving on Havana and Batista was preparing to flee. He sent an escort to the hospital to retrieve Roth and see him out of the country.

Another possibility is that Mrs. Roth, returning to her hotel suite after Hyman was checked into the hospital, discovered Johnny Ola's body and called her husband's contacts in the Cuban government to report the foul play. They immediately surmised that Roth was in danger, and dispatched that smart-looking military detachment to the hospital.

Yeah,i think they just found Ola's body and were alerted that something was up.Thats what i've always thought.

Watching GF on Bravo tonight, the Corleone compound (mall?) that Clemenza and later Frankie take over, looks much bigger than it does in Pt II. In Pt II, when Frankie comes home and Michael is waiting for him, you can look across the street and see $5,000 houses (much like Hyman Roth's). In GF, all the surrounding houses are mansions. Any reason for this? I wonder if they shot that one scene in Florida on the same block as the Roth house?

Why does Clemenza and Sonny keep reminding Michael to "drop the gun" right away after he whacks Sollozzo and the police captain? What's so important about dropping the gun right away?

Because if anyone catches you with the gun on you, you're screwed. Leave it there you can't be linked to the crime.

In GF1 Micheal also smiles at Apollonia at the Sunday gathering across the table when he sees her fondling the necklace he has given her; She smiles back shyly and lowers her eyes.

This newbie thread was a good idea. I stumbled upon this site, and very helpful answering questions I had.
So here is my "newbie" question/opinion.
It has to do when Michael and Enzo are on the steps outside, ready to protect Vito.
When Mike is talking to Enzo, and right after lighting the cigarette, Mike seems to have an odd look, as he looks at Enzo. I think I read on here, it was because Mike thought Enzo was so nervous, yet Mike was under control.
I always thought it had to do with Mike thinking something was up, or something coming to him that Enzo is hiding something. That scene didnt sit right with me, for some reason. Or am I reading too much into it? Just seems Mike is thinking something there about Enzo.

You may be on to something Jeff,but i believe it is Michaels realization that he's so calm compared to Enzo.

Mike is thinking something about Enzo. But not what you're thinking that he thought. Mike realized that this boy Enzo stuck his neck out for Don Vito by not only risking his life, but also risking deportation by staying there and taking a chance at getting arressted. I believe that in the novel Michael makes sure that Enzo was taken care by the Corleones for sticking his neck out the way that he did.

As I have posted before about this scene, I feel that was the defining moment for Michael. He and Enzo face death when those cars pull up, and after they pull away Enzo, understandably is shaking uncontrolably. Mike takes the lighter and calmly lights Enzo's cigarette, and then looks long and hard at what he is calmly doing. I think at the very moment Michael realized that he could live this "life" without any problem. That he was a natural at it. I think that many things ran through his mind at that split moment. He also realized that had he not been there to stand outside and act like a bodyguard, his father would have been killed in that hospital. Mike, thinking all this knew that he now must get involved in order to save both his father's life and the family itself.

Michael also smiles when meeting all the guests at the New Years Eve gathering in Havana. He also smiles when Fredo orders a banana daquari earlier that day.

He smiles a bit as a child

Does anyone have an answer for this one?