It's a tie, they both lose. And the fact that this has been a subject of conversation multiple times a day this week suggests to me that we are all losers in the long run. People seriously can't find more important things to talk about than which mediocre rapper will sell more records?

No wonder the rest of the world hates America. While they starve to death, America's primary concern is which rich dude will make more money from the sale of vapid pop music today.

I didn't even know that these two were competing until last night, when I channel surfing and caught five second of MTV.

I never listen to the radio anymore (absolutely never... I just plug my Creative Zen into the car stereo, and listen to something actually worth a damn) and I seldom watch TV. The only TV I really watch anymore is Adult Swim, ultra late at night, or if I can remember to watch it, I'll tune into Conan. Other than that, no television at all.

It really is spectacular; I think everyone here should just cut television and radio out of their life for just a week and see how they like it. I haven't listened to the radio in about a year, and for the past two years, catch maybe 6 hours of TV a week. It makes me feel great.

Why aren't they both dead?

kanye west & 50 cent are two great examples of no lyrical talent, no meaning, and great beats.
i used to listen to hiphop alot but nowadays with the southern bs and these guys rapping about guns, money, and power. hiphop is dead, long live tupac.

50 performed down the road from my house last night, at a small club. I was just reading it in the local paper. Glad I wasn't in the area.

Kanye West is great, as a rapper and especially as a producer.
he gave the boost to albums like Jay-Z's The Blueprint and others, being one of the few to use many classic music, even like The Doors as a sample.

Kanye West is nothing like 50 Cent, who sucks at everything. Thoguh I can see why some are annoyed by Kanye in the media, but that aside, I'd like to see anyone criticize his production, which he carries greatly into his own material.

Reynolds, no offense, but I think Tupac is horribly overrated. Notorious BIG wins that battle.

Biggie and Tupac were both overrated when it comes to lyrical content.Both of them were on the same shit.

Long live Big L!!!!!!!

Ice Cube is the man

I think we can sum up this in one sentence: current main-stream hip hop sucks. Hip hop, as a highly profitable, radio friendly market is dead. But, as an art form, I think it is alive and well... There are plenty of excellent hip hop acts out right now, the major record labels just have their heads shoved up their asses too far to realize it.

Notorious BIG's Ready to Die is the best hip-hop album ever to me, so I don't consider him overrated. Today's mainstream hip hop sucks, but people like Kanye West, Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, and others keep it alive with some quality.

That's right.Mainstream rap is about everything BUT the music.Real hiphop is about creating magic with your native language,painting mental pictures and mentally stimulating the listener.But sadly,75% of the worlds population think what they see on t.v or hear on the radio,is all hiphop has to offer.My song is currently number one on the Aussie hiphop charts and it's raw as fuck.No gimmicks,image or conformist style.Straight hiphop.I think the word hiphop also adds to the average person not taking the time to really find real musicianship in this genre.

Tupac Shakur - Death Around the Corner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN15haCIGAM&mode=related&search=

'Don't you trust them other suckers
They fought like they your homies
but they phony motherfuckers.'

don vercetti i agree will agree with u in the fact that notorious big is the greatest lyrical rapper of all time, his lyrics are crushing tupac. i like tupac for his talent on the mic but also the deepness to his lyrics, he was a more intellectual mc than biggie who was the best at describing his struggle in the hood. biggie is the goat lyrically, tupac jus brought a deeper sense to hip-hop. on the kanye side of things his rap and lyrics are not good, but his production is on point, he definetly boosted The Blueprint which is classic.

greatest mcs of all time:

1. biggie- greatest lyrical rapper ever. life after death

2. nas -favorite mc. illmatic, lost tapes, stillmatic

3. tupac- most influential. the don killuminati: 7 day theory

4. rakim - paid in full

5. big l -wouldve been probably the best ever despite tragic death, many mcs of recent times have borrowed his style. the big picture.

My classics are:

Nas-Illmatic
Big L-Lifestyles of the poor and dangerous
Cage-Movies for the blind
Arsonists-As the world burns
Binary Star-Masters of the universe
Louis Logic-Misery loves Comedy

Too may to name and these emcees are very underground.They make Talib Kweli and Mos def look like Tupac,Jarule and 50 cents...

Oh yeah Biggies Ready to die is up there.Rakim started the multi syllable rhyme styles.Pretty much real lyricism is talent.Fuck Commercial rapperty pappert bling,whips and bitches shit.It infuriates me that these fucks get known.They are the reason rap/hiphop is hated....

Over on my film board I posted a compilation of various hip-hop I liked, compressed to the length of a single CD, ready to upload.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TFIZ8PDB

01 "My Definition of a Boombastic Jazz Style" - Dream Warriors
02 "Right Here in Front of You" [Unsung Heroes & Ty Feat. Bries Mix] - Allenko Brotherhood Ensemble
03 "Hot Jazz Biscuits" - Urbanator
04 "Ill Culinary Behaviour" - DJ Format ft. Abdominable
05 "Digital" - Goldie ft. KRS-One
06 "Witness the Fitness" by Roots Manuva
07 "The Creator" - Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth
08 "It Takes Two" - Rob Base & DJ EZ Rock
09 "The Choice is Yours" - Black Sheep
10 "New New York" - Tes
11 "Eye on the Gold Chain" (1992 mix) - Ugly Duckling
12 "Life Saver" - Baybe & Guru
13 "The Only One" - DM & Jemini
14 "We Got the Funk" - Beatnuts
15 "Nosferatu" - DJ Krush ft. Mr. Lif
16 "Fast Shadow" - Wu-Tang Clan

Check it out and lemme know whatchya fink.

yo capo you got some actual real hiphop on that list..listen people get into immortal technique..this [BadWord] is fucking ill.

Biggie's writing is amazing..he writes zesty little quips that can only be called poetry.

But Pac is talking about LIFE, and not just thug LIFE. Yes, a LOT of his writing is simply meant to give the testament of the plight of the black man - which he does brilliantly.

But a lot of those lyrics dealing w/ the plight of black ppl have dual-meaning. In the line--they FOUGHT like they your homies but they phony mother fuckers-- FOUGHT, is not necessarily meant to be taken literally, of course. ANYONE from ANY walk of life can relate to that line.


Anywho..as far as sheer rapping is concerned..It goes Reggie, Jay-Z, Tupac and Biggie
Andre from Outkast, Jada, Kurupt, Nas and then me(Eminem).

redman is nice but i think eminem has him a little overrated, and jay-z would be further down my top 10. and capo that is a great list i havent heard about half of those tracks so ill have to give it a listen. thanks for the link.

Ghostface Killah is the best rapper.

And Deep Cover is the best rap SONG. There can never be a greater song..EVER.

Dr. Dre & Snoop Dogg - Deep Cover
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8btIzccJzg4

This is so true LLC, years back when I moved out of my parents home into my first apartment with two roomates we couldn't afford television and none of us had a radio other than our little alarm clock radios which were never turned on to music.

That went on for almost a year, and that was possibly the best time of my life. I've never been so creative than I was during that time. The three of us actually sat around playing guitar, reading the newspaper, having deep discussions about important things.... It really was amazing.

Then one day we could afford cable and got an old T.V. for free. We became idiots watching sitcoms all the time. You know what I despised the most when we got television again? The ads. I had forgotten what it was like to be bombarded with advertisements all day long on television and radio. Ever since I have hated commercials with a passion. Even the funny ones.

'Cuz its 1-8-7 on a undercover coooop.

Is Hip Hop really dying? And I mean in the same sense that "Punk is dead", where it's not really dead, it's just not mainstream. Honestly, I would love to see another genre of music takeover the mainstream for a while... like maybe Heavy Metal-Polka or something crazy. As long as it is something different for a change.

Indeed it is, Bogz. Indeed it is.

deep cover is some hot shit. best rap track i ever heard, nas-it aint hard to tell. the lyrics are so lyrically amazing and flo perfectly in a smooth running beat.

"It ain't hard to tell, I excel, then prevail
The mic is contacted, I attract clientele
My mic check is life or death, breathin a sniper's breath
I exhale the yellow smoke of buddha through righteous steps
Deep like The Shinin', sparkle like a diamond
Sneak a uzi on the island in my army jacket lininHit the Earth like a comet, invasion
Nas is like the Afrocentric Asian, half-man, half-amazin
Cause in my physical, I can express through song
Delete stress like Motrin, then extend strong
I drank Moet with Medusa, give her shotguns in hell
From the spliff that I lift and inhale, it ain't hard to tell

The buddha monk's in your trunk, turn the bass up
Not stories by Aesop, place your loot up, parties I shoot up
Nas, I analyze, drop a jew-el, inhale from the L
School a fool well, you feel it like braille
It ain't hard to tell, I kick a skill like Shaquille holds a pill
Vocabulary spills I'm +Ill+
plus +Matic+, I freak beats slam it like Iron Shiek
Jam like a tech with correct techniquesSo analyze me, surprise me, but can't magmatize me
Scannin while you're plannin ways to sabotage me
I leave em froze like her-on in your nose
Nas'll rock well, it ain't hard to tell

This rhythmatic explosion, is what your frame of mind has chosen
I'll leave your brain stimulated, niggaz is frozen
Speak with criminal slang, begin like a violin
End like Leviathan, it's deep well let me try again
Wisdom be leakin out my grapefruit troop
I dominate break loops, givin mics men-e-straul cycles
Street's disciple, I rock beats that's mega trifle
And groovy but smoother than moves by Villanova
You're still a soldier, I'm like Sly Stone in Cobra
Packin like a rasta in the weed spot
Vocals'll squeeze glocks, MC's eavesdrop
Though they need not to sneak
My poetry's deep, I never fell
Nas's raps should be locked in a cell
It ain't hard to tell

I personally think most West Coast rap is overrated. Not to say all of it was bad, but it was the most popular back in the early/mid 90's and like any genre of music it was also the most mainstream. While many corny albums were being made about the same old shit, Biggie was making his cinematicesque autobiographical Ready to Die, Nas was making the second best rap album of all time, Illmatic, And not to mention Public Enemy's great art of samples combined wit htheir great raps. A Tribe Called Quest was also there making great albums like The Low End Theory and who could forget the Wu-Tang Clan around the same time. Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers), Raekwon's Only Built 4 Cuban Linx, GZA's Liquid Swords, And especially Ghostface Killah's albums, my favorite being Fishscale. Ghostface Killah's probably one of the most underrated MC's around. Jay-Z is also one of the greats, especially for today, and some of that goes towards Kanye's credit as an excellent producer.

TUPAC

BIGGIE

Ohhhhh how we miss you soooo

We want y'all both ta knowwww

WE REALLY LOVE YOU SO

Yo DVC mang, drop that shit!

2Pac - Temptations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6EZ3OxIpqs

I'm the whitest man in the world and I really know NOTHING about rap, but have I mentioned the fact that I can make a muthafucker shake, rattle and roll...I'm full of liquor, thug nigga, quick to jab at them ho's?

2Pac - Can't C Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVv4IdGtcNw