Admit what you didn't understand.

The GF film had to deal with a lot of complex interwoven storys, characters, etc. I guess I'm not the only one who didn't understand some major facts when watching it the first time:
- Who is Barzini? Who is Tattaglia? What do they want?
- I didn't recognize the baker at the hospital, even though he said it.
- The time gaps:
* Luca in Vito’s office/ “Have yourself a merry christmas”
* After Michael’s return everything seems to happen so quickly.
* In fact FCC uses only once an old fashioned way of telling us that time is passing: In the middle of the film when he shows the newspaper headlines
- The Paulie/Rocco thing.
- I couldn’t tell that the new guy (Neri) at the meeting of Michael, Vito, Tom, Tessio, Clemenza is the same guy who kills Barzini. In fact I didn't really understand this before I read the book and saw GF2.
- What kind of apartment is Sonny in when Clemenza is knocking on his door?
- Are the Corleones in fact a criminal organisation? (just kidding )

(This thread is only about GF, because I think the problems part 2 gives to first time watchers are of a different kind.)

When i watched the first time i was only 15, so yeah some things were complicated but after reading the book, playing the game and then watching the movies, everything became very clear.

Though I'd only seen GF once (in a theater), I'd read the novel dozens of times, so I had that benefit when viewing the film.

Maybe I've got a criminal enterprise nature, but I there wasn't anything I didn't understand the first time I saw the film. Of course, I had already read the novel.

Alot of the lack of understanding you express can be a function of one's age and experience watching movies and with life. For example, if you're watching Gone With the Wind, a four hour + movie, you certainly wouldn't expect that from beginning to end that the Civil War was fought and concluded in just over 4 hours. That is a function of your knowledge of history.

Also, Don Barzini is greeted by Vito at the wedding. Both Vito and Sollozzo identify the Tattaglias at their meeting. So, you know who they are. If the wedding is taking place outside in sunshine, one might very well conclude that it is taking place in the summer. If one then sees Christmas decorations in a following scene, one might very well conclude that it is now around Christmas and that several months have passed since the wedding. Tom tells us that it's almost 1946. Well, for those who know their history, they are aware that WWII had just ended a few months ago. So, they understand Michael's appearing in a uniform at the wedding. Also, why conclude that Sonny is living in an apartment and not a house?

A filmaker doesn't have the luxury of unlimited time. A four hour movie is pressing it. Those are just a few points to ponder.

OK. So this thread is for those who had not read the novel first. Of course, when I read the novel, everything was quite clear. But watching the film the first time without knowing who is important and who isn't, I think it's hard to follow. (This has nothing to do with history knowledge btw.) When the wedding scenes begin, we are being overwhelmed with lots of names and information. For example, the scene between Sonny and his wife is much more intense, than the arrival of Don Barzini who at that moment appears to be just another ordinary guest who happens to deserve the politeness of being welcomed personally.
Don't be a smart a***, olivant. You don't have to explain me the things about Tattaglias, the winter 1946, etc.
This thread is meant to be for those who first saw the film to be open and honest about our ignorance with some little details.
Please, don't spoil this little game!

I don't think Barzini was being portrayed as "just another ordinary guest." In fact, I think FFC went out of his way to show us that Barzini was a bigtime Mafia guy and potential rival. Barzini was the only guest, other than Johnny Fontane, that Vito was shown greeting personally. His title, "Don Barzini," tells us loud and clear that he's a fellow Mafia Don. The studied reserve and coolness of their "embrace" is a harbinger of hostilities to come. And Barzini signals one of his guys to grab the photographer's camera and rip out the film--only a Mafia boss, not an ordinary guest, would have that concern.

One area of ambiguity at Connie's wedding concerns Hagen's status. Michael tells Kay that "he's a good lawyer--I think he's going to be consigliere." [emphasis added.] But we never learn that he's actually become consigliere because FFC chose to delete an important scene, in which Vito, his sons and Johnny visit Consigliere Genco on his deathbed. To be fair, I didn't spend the entire movie (or any part of it) wondering what Tom's job was. But we don't learn that he was actually elevated to consigliere until late in the film, when Michael tells him, "You're not a wartime consigliere, Tom..."

Hey, thank you for explaining, everything. Thank you, thank you, thank you. This thread exceptionally is NOT meant for a discussion about acting, directing, etc. Just a little game I tried to encourage: Leave your smart comments or other threads, let's play this little game here.

Haha, I understood* what you are looking for Danito. Here is my list (not that all my questions are clear now )
1)Who is who in the commission meeting where Vito tries to make peace?
2)Who is Stracci and who is Cuneo in the baptism killing?
3)Why did Solozzo want to kill Vito?
4)The whole geographical scene - Newyork and Nevada. Where was each scene occurring?
5)Tessio's role in betrayal

Now that I think of it, I was pretty much confused totally after watching the Godfather for the first time. In fact the first time I watched the movie completely was the second time I watched the movie. First time, I got impatient with its length and complexity




*someone or the other will come up with the same line that Fredo told Michael in Las Vegas when he confronts Moe Green. Just ignore them

OK, Danito, I'll play along.

Hard to remember now, but I had not read the novel before I first saw the film, so I'm sure there were many things that were unclear to me.

Some were (I think):

1. How Vito knew that Barzini was his true enemy.
2. How Don T. knew that Michael's emenies knew he was in Sicily.
3. How Sollozzo knew that Luca was a spy.
4. Who Neri was and where he came from.
5. Why it was "smarter" for Tessio to turn traitor.

How were we suppose to know that Sonny's wife was indicating the length of his manhood? What decent woman would do that at a wedding!?

Well, you ask two questions.

A woman is sitting talking to several other women. She's got her hands apart opposite each other and she's moving them further and further apart and then she turns around to show her husband. The other women were oooing and awwwing and laughing. In that context, what alternatives would the movement of her hands mimic?

As far as a decent woman goes, a wedding reception is a festive affair and, if it's an Italian wedding reception, the behavior of the guests can be quite earthy. Remember the comment "Cosa fai?" that someone made when they saw Tessio dancing with the little girl and Mama Coleone's comment to Carlo when they were ready to take the picture. They're adults and the humor is harmless.

Come on Olivant, have some fun with this.

When i first saw the movie i missed alot of the little things but i didnt have a problem in following the main plot.

I wasn't sure how Vito knew it was Barzini (still might not be totally sure)

Most here would agree that it was Barzini's dominance at the "Big Meeting". He took the leadership role in summarizing the agreement on the narcotics issue. Vito saw that as Barizini muscling in on the action and thus muscling the Corleone's out.

Ditto. This is why I posted above that when (in this case) watching a film one has to draw on one's life experience to interpret scenes. That takes a certain amount of experience with life, being in different situations, one's capacity to infer from speech and behavior, and exercise of judgement.

Figuring out it was Barzini all along is very simple. Aside from the fact that he chaired the meeting, once Vito makes the deal, Tattaglia hesitates and asks Barzini about possible future vengence by Vito. Barzini (mistakenly) allays Tattaglia's fears by telling him they did not have to give assurances "as if we were lawyers." If Tattaglia was truly in charge of the drug operation he would have asked Corleone the question directly, and he would not have had to look to Barzini for support. It's worthy to note that Vito with his Sicilian cunning picked up on this but Tom, who was not a wartime consigliere did not.

I've always wondered why Vito hadn't figured out until that day that it was Barzini all along. Tattaglia, as he told Tom, was a mere pimp. Barzini was the obvious Number Two Don in NYC, waiting to supplant Vito. Drugs would give him enough capital to improve his position. Vito, with his Sicilian cunning, should have been able to figure out that Tat and Sol, by themselves, did not have the wherewithal to make the drugs deal a big-time proposition. Someone else had to have been backing them...someone who'd hide his interest so he'd be out of the line of fire in case something went wrong, and who'd pick up the pieces in case of a mob war or a police crackdown...someone like Barzini.

TB I think it is as simple as this: The intelligence the Corleones had was that the Tattaglias were using their money to front Sollozzo in the drug business. In other words it was an expansion of their enterprise, and they needed the Corleone political support to get this done. In the scene at Genco Vito asks what percentage do the Tattaglias get and Sollozzo looks at Tom and says "te salute" and then says he's take care of the Tattaglias from his share.

When Vito calls Tattaglia a "pimp" it is from the perspective that he never could have out fought Santino, not that Tattaglia was a poor businessman and could not make money.

Perhaps the bigger issue here is why didn't Vito ask Sollozzo, "What about the other families? Are they behind you? Do you think Barzini, Cuneo, and Stracci are going to sit back and watch you make a killing without wetting their beaks too?
Perhaps we should get the whole commission together before we decide on this drug business." This would have bought the Corleones time to build some muscle, it would have kept Luca alive, and it would have forced Barzini's hand.

But as we know, "The Don (rest in peace) was slippin."

Oh my god, olivant, dontomasso, turnbull, why don't you keep the discussions out of this thread and let the game roll?


(I thought I'm the only German here.)

Good point. But, while it was only Vito who had the political and legal connections to support Sollozzo's enterprise, any one or all of the other Dons had the money to do so. So, I wonder why he asked Vito for a million ($2 mill in the novel). Vito's connections alone were worth much more.

Danito, as you gain experience on these boards, you'll learn that interesting threads attract interesting responses--not necessarily the responses that the poster anticipated. It's one of the joys of being on the best site on the Web. We regard these boards as a public forum. When you post in a public forum, it's not your private property.



What does that mean?

Germans are famous for not being able to play.

It's true.

To quote George Bailey's Germans: "To say that Germans generally are children and infantile is not say that they are playful. Children are not knowingly playful--or if they are, play is not to them what it is to grown-ups. In it's passion for the game the child is utterly serious--and that is what makes the game so much fun. For "fun" in it's root meaning is deceit(in the sense of diversion--to take the mind off a line of thought and turn it toward another)....The Austrians make a game of something serious; the Germans make something serious a game. This is what Seyss-Inquart was getting at when he said that Hitler would have never amounted to much if he had remained in South Germany."

Oops! Aren't you going a little too far? "You know you got to stop them at the beginning, like they should have stopped Danito at the GangsterBB.NET"
Is this what you're telling me?

I never ever knew what a "don" was until I read the novel, when it first came out, and had to ask an Italian friend of mine.

When Vito is shown after coming out of the hospital, why does he have a bandage around his neck? Did he receive a gunshot wound at his neck?