Hi all, who do you think was Michel's underboss during part one and two. I alway's thought it was Neri but I'm not sure. So does anyone know

The Corleone Family chart in the Senate hearings scene lists Fredo as underboss at the time of part two. Obviously that position was ceremonial because Fredo had no business being an underboss.

As for part one, I doubt Fredo would've been listed as such, I don't think there was an underboss at that point as things were in a bit of disarray. Santino was underboss to Vito, but Santino was now dead and Michael had taken the family from Vito so I don't really know how to answer your question in regards to Part I...

Neri was a caporegime in Part I and Part II as well as being Michael's personal doberman.

Vito didn't have an underboss per se. I think Sonny was an understudy, not really an underboss. In fact, Sonny's actual position and duties in the family were never made clear (although, apparently, he did have a regime). Following Vito's death and the Great Massacre of 1955, Michael didn't really need an underboss--or a consigliere, for that matter. Michael, the hypercontroller, trusted in no counsel but his own.

I know Neri was Capo but he could have also been Underboss. Also Fredo was wronly listed so I don't really trust the chart.

I always assumed that Sonny was underboss because he stepped up to the plate once Vito had been shot. Unless, Vito had made it clear that he wanted Sonny as acting boss.

Sonny was almost definitly underboss for the old man. After the don is shot even if he is acting boss just for then why would he say "if the old man dies god forbid do we take the deal" obvisley if DOn Vito died his underboss would take over.

No Sonny wasn't the underboss. Really there was no underboss. Tom was consigliere, Sonny was the heir apparent.

I think Sonny was Vito's underboss. It's clear that he's in charge when Vito is not around. In the novel Sonny makes his name for himself as a caporegime when his father is shot during the thirties and later on it's stated his father is considering making him formal underboss.

Of course an underboss can always be passed over.

As far as Fredo being underboss either he was given the title to pacify him or the FBI or the informants got it wrong. Although Fredo evidently has men who report to him it's clear that Michael does not trust him with much. Fredo has no authority over Tom, Rocco or Neri. Michael was so controlling and hands on as boss that he didn't really need or use an underboss.

In GFII I always felt that Neri was sort of unofficially his underboss.....that was until the attempted hit on Mike, when he then went to Hagen and made him the acting Don because he really trusted no one.

And it's even more evident in GFIII that Neri was kind of his underboss. We see him make the decision with Connie ( was she his consiglieri? ) for Vincent to take out Zsa Zsa.

Sonny was Vito's boy and he had his own regime. That put him in a preeminent place to take command of the family. Afterall, Vito wasn't dead. The novel makes it very plain that powerful capos like Tessio and Clemenza could have contended for the title of successor. But, again, Vito wasn't dead. Sonny was at the center of Corleone power and the other capos looked to him for instructions. There was no underboss. In the novel, Neri took command of Tessio's regime at the end of GFI, but there's no indication that he kept command of it. As he novel says further, Neri was Mike's Luca Brasi. But, again, there's no indication that he was a underboss.

In III, there really is no family for him to be an underboss within. Zasa has a the Corleone family and, presumably, has his own underboss.

I respectfully disagree with you about that olivant.

In GFIII Zsa Zsa has what was once known as the "Corleone family business." It meant the New York Territories business more than anything esle. It did not mean that Zsa Zsa had the Corleone power. It did not mean that there was no more Corleone family under Michael. For if that were true, then Zsa Zsa, Altobello and Luchesse wouldn't have given a damn about Michael and the Corleone family.

Michael was still his Godfather.....

"Joey Zasa showed up. We’ve got him waiting in the lobby. Says he wants to personally congratulate you and show his respect. He says you’re his patrone."


......As a matter of fact we even learn and see that Michael was still an integral part of the Commission. A huge part of the plot was about Michael mentoring Vincent in order to save the Corleone Family. So I don't see how anyone could say that there is really no family under Michael and imply that Zsa Zsa was the boss of the Corleone family.

Again, unofficially it looked as though Neri was sort of, somewhat, of an underboss to Michael in GFIII.

I always viewed Pentangeli and Zsa Zsa as capos, but not in the literal sense of the word if you understand what I'm getting at.

They were an "extended" part of the Corleone family. In GFII Frankie tells Michael that he wants him off his back and doesn't want him telling him how to run "HIS" family. And Michael's reply is that his, Frankie's family, is still called Corleone.

There is no question that even though the New York faction was given to Clemenza, who while running New York, was still under the Corleone family rule. And I believe that extended to Pentangelli after Clemenza died and eventually down to Zsa Zsa. Only with Zsa Zsa, by that time, Michael had probably really began to distance himself from business in New York and had allowed Zsa Zsa to basically run his territories as he saw fit. However Michael was still considered the Capo Di Tutti Capi.

I've commented on this several times before. The best analogy I can post is how the Chicago Outfit ran under Tony Accardo. Tony was the power behind the throne for decades. The best known Chicago Outfit boss that operated with his approval was Sam Giancana. There was no doubt among the wiseguys in Chicago that Sam was the Outfit boss. But there was also no doubt among them that Tony could exercise ultimate control if he chose to. Joe Bonanno exercised suzerainty over the the family that carried his name (and still does) even though he was ensconced out west.

That's exactly the relationship between Mike and Clemenza and Pentangeli and Zasa. As Vincent put it, "Everyone knows you're like the Supreme Court." For whatever reason some men exercise power and are recognized by other men as having that power, Mike had it. He was an overlord of a extensive empire that included the Corleone family back in NY. He told Zasa that we have no debts, no percentages. Zasa stated that the Commission gave me that territory and you approved. But since the Corleone family carried Mike's name, he wanted to make sure that it was operated in a manner consistent with the way he thought it should. He didn't exercise operational control.

GFIII leaves us with no replacement for Zasa. We imagine it was Vinnie. But Vinnie was succeeding Michael which meant that he would inherit responsibility for a heck of alot more than just the few hundred Corleone Soldiers in NY.

I think Sonny became the unofficial acting Don after Vito was shot. In the novel, Vito had his doubts that Sonny had what it took to succeed him, so he never officially appointed Sonny underboss. But after the attempt on Vito's life, he obviously couldn't make decisions for the Family, so Sonny had to do it for him.

Why speculate. Vito tells Tom that he thought Santino was a bad Don.