I have a theory that when Michael got jacked in the face by McClusky, and had his jaw broken.....his apperance changed,but so did his way of thinking.....he became cold hearted, and very cunning......and he never went back to the old Michael....looks wise or attitude wise.... I look at that moment and see Michael Corleon dying, and Don Michael Corleon the Godfather being born.
Anyone agree??? Just a theory mind you........

I've always said that in that moment, when he's sitting in the chair, and the camera moves in on him, that this is where the transformation begins. In the hospital he tells Vito, "I'm with you now pop". That scene where Michael plots the murders is one of my favorites.

Beth....I agree that when they zoom in on him in the chair is one of the moments......but I think for people like us here, who are fanatics, I think we all have our little theories, and moments on situations.......but you are right I love that scene when he says I am with you now pop, and they show Vito with a tear down his cheek....oh man, that is powerful.

It's even more clear in the novel. Michael gives a long explanation to Tom, which never appears in the movie. I can't recall the exact wording, but the gist of it is: "Damn right I took McClusky's punch personally. Sollozzo is trying to destroy our Family & kill my father. I may be coming late, but I'm coming full bore from this moment on."

Yes the scene in the chair is the real transformation. You can see him sitting there as if he is already the head of the family. He has stopped Sonny, Tom, Tessio and Clemenza cold in their tracks with his brutal, cunning and brilliant plan.

I agree DonTom........but if that whole incident at the hospital didn't happen, he never would have thought up that plan to nail the Turk and McClusky......who knows if he would have met with The Turk either.....Sonny would have never let him go if he didn't save his father at the hospital.

Yes, but if he didn't save his father at the hospital. Sonny probably would not have been around to tell him anything. It may be that the transformation in Michael's mind came when he saw that Sonny was not handling things the way they should be handled. Don't forget Michael broke up with Kay before he went to the hospital, so he must have intuited that he was getting himself mixed up in this whole thing before he ever went there.

There is another thread running about the use of sarcasm in the Corleone family, and it occurs to me that Michael is very sarcastic in the scene where Sonny suggests that Michael go check on Luca Brasi's whereabouts and Tom then says not to get Michael involved, after which Tom tells Mike to stay around the house and "be a big help," to which Michael answers "yes sir."

A very good point DonTom.....you seem very schooled on this topic......as Solozzo says to Tom after Don Vito asks "What cut is the Tatalliga family getting?"......."Salute"!!!
I hope I spelt all this ok....I am Irish, and Polish....Italian is not my strong suit.....LOL.

Yes, I think that at the hospital he sees his father's vulnerability and the complicity even of government in that vulnerability. The scene in the chair is dramatic, but its real essence is Michael's exercise of his intelligence. He realizes that the key to Sollozzo's success is killing his father. That may be one reason why FFC has hi sitting in a chair in the middle of the room and of everybody. Normally, that chair would not be there.

In the novel he makes it plain that everything in life is personal. And, like his father who also started late, as somebody else opined, he is starting late also, but coming full bore.

Michael's change of attitude was a result of the cumulative effects of (1) Anger at seeing his sick father unguarded (2) the subsequent hit attempt (3) the fact that the Police (an official institution, like the Army of whom Micheal was recently a member - betrayed by the State he fought to protect etc) were corrupted by Sollozzo and opposed to his father and (4) the blow to his face.

You can create the effect of the last of these factors by cramming a load of bread into your left cheek and doing the whole "where does it say you can't kill a cop" bit.

I love that line......"Where does it say you can't kill a cop?" It is such a turn around from the droopy faced kid that was rebeling against his fathers business and asking Kay....."And what do you want for Christmas?" Kay: "You.." GAG ME!!!!........I LOVE IT!!!!

droopy faced?

Sure Lavinia...in the GFII final flashback scene Sonny introduces Carlo to Michael by calling him that "droopy thing over there."

I wonder what Sonny would call Michael today, given Al Pacino's face current aspect!

Lavina.....go back to GF 1 and look at Michael when he is with Kay at the wedding, and shopping for Christmas.....then look at him when he goes to Vegas to see Moe Green......night and day difference..... I can not believe Paccino didn't win an award for that performance.

He wouldn't say anything. He is dead.

WHAT?????? I did not know it!!!!

I cannot believe Pacino didn't win an Oscar for his performances in the GF trilogy!!!

I cannot believe Pacino didn't win an Oscar until 'Scent of a Woman' !!!

(although I always love that first line of his acceptance speech...'MY STREAK IS OVER !!')

Apple

I cannot believe Pacino didn't win an Oscar until 'Scent of a Woman' !!!

(although I always love that first line of his acceptance speech...'MY STREAK IS OVER !!')

Apple [/QUOTE]


Thats cause he never did the tango in any of his other films.

Actually...had it not been for the unforgettable performance of Joe Pesci in 'Goodfellas'...I think Pacino might've had the Best Supporting Actor award that year for 'Dick Tracy'.

But, life works out ok sometimes. That was probably Pecsi's one and ONLY shot at an Oscar win. Pacino clearly had more chances ahead.

Apple

ps - Tango's don't always do the trick. Jack Lemmon did a hilarious one in 'Some Like It Hot', yet lost the Best Actor Oscar that year to Charleton Heston (well deserved for 'Ben Hur').

Yes, but Some Like It Hot has been ranked as the best comedy ever made, so that Tango Jack did with Joe E. Brown, the great former Silent Screen actor is immortalized in its own way. It is pretty common for great actors to be snubbed early in their careers....an over the hill John Wayne beat Dustin Hoffman the year of the Graduate, Henry Fonda beat someone for On Golden Pond, and Peter O'Tolle was passed over for Lawrence of Arabia.

I am torn on Paccino in the Godfather movies......or in Carlito's Way......Damn, that movie is a fucking masterpiece.....I put it right below the Godfather movies....He is soo damn believable, and he brings the suave attitude that he had in the GF......

Actually, by the time he made 'Some Like It Hot', Jack Lemmon was an established star, already an Academy Award Winner (Best Supporting Actor - Mister Roberts) in 1955.

But in 1959 - the Oscar was rightfully awarded to Heston so Lemmon's loss can't really be considered a 'snub'.

Apple

Is that movie really all that funny??? I mean, it has been mentioned twice now on the Godfather chat room.......I mean, what did we do to be treated with such disrespect???

I think as an overall comedy it is one of the greatest.

It's not full of constant, non-stop laughs/gags...but Jack Lemmon is clearly the comic character in all his scenes and ESPECIALLY the ones he shares with Joe E. Brown.

For what its worth (which isn't much)...my favorite scene of all is the one in which Lemmon tells Tony Curtis that he's engaged to the millionaire, the morning after their famous tango.

Apple

Actually, Pesci's first shot at an Oscar win was in 1980's Raging Bull, for which he was deservedly nominated, but somehow lost to Timothy Hutton and Ordinary People.

I don't know why the voters were so enamored with that picture; Personally, I didn't particularly care for it, but it beat Raging Bull for best Picture, and Robert Redford beat Scorsese for Best Director

Did you see Ordinary People?

It was (and IS) an excellent film although I'll agree it's debatable as to whether it deserved Best Picture status.

However, Timothy Hutton's performance as the troubled son most certainly did deserve the Oscar win. I'm not saying Pesci didn't...but Hutton did.

That's the sort of tragedy of the Academy Awards...there can only be one winner in each category and though several nominees are equally deserving, sometimes it's merely a few votes that makes the difference in who goes home with the statue.

Apple

Um....yah, I saw it

I was just pointing out that Goodfellas was not Pesci's ONLY shot at an Oscar, and I thought he did a better job in Raging Bull than he did in Goodfellas.

I mean, in Goodfellas he was playing almost essentially the same character in many respects as he had in Raging Bull, and since that was his first major role, his acting seemed a lot more natural to me because I had never seen that character before.

I'm not saying Ordinary People wasn't good, or that Hutton wasn't either. Just not my kind of picture, I guess. And compared to Raging Bull, which I consider to be a masterpiece and one of the greatest films of all time, it just seemed kind of, well, "ordinary".

Yes, I got that point and appreciated the reminder.

However you also managed to point out that Pesci somehow lost an Oscar to Tim Hutton. Implying that Hutton deserved his less.

I'll have to admit that 'Raging Bull' is not MY kind of picture. Which I guess is why I somehow have not managed to see it yet !!

Apple