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Who were the underbosses? #31032
07/29/05 10:12 AM
07/29/05 10:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 252
England
Raymondo Corleone Offline OP
Capo
Raymondo Corleone  Offline OP
Capo
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 252
England
Does anyone know who the underbosses were throughout the GF trilogy? I noticed that the FBI had Fredo listed as underboss but I assume they had that wrong.


"Just When I Thought I Was Out - They Pulled Me Back In....."
Re: Who were the underbosses? #31033
07/29/05 04:13 PM
07/29/05 04:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
This topic has come up before with no definitive conclusions. My guess is that Puzo and FFC wanted to stress the familial aspects of the Trilogy, so they dispensed with some of the organizational characteristics usually associated with the Mafia like an underboss. For example, it's unlikely that a Mafia family with as many soldiers as the Corleones would have only two capos most of the time. Fredo's designation by the FBI as an underboss was probably meant to be understood by an audience as a guess by the FBI. But it doesn't make much sense.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Who were the underbosses? #31034
07/30/05 03:09 AM
07/30/05 03:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,697
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,697
AZ
I believe it was an authenticity touch on FFC's part:

The chart shown in that scene was an exact replica of the charts shown at the famous Valachi televised hearings in 1962 (see them at the bottom of this url:
http://www.gangrule.com/gallery/maps.html
So was the Senate chamber shown. The FBI had been ignoring the Mafia for decades, so the info in the charts were guesswork on their part. We all know that Fredo really wasn't an underboss. But FFC was trying to show us that the FBI really didn't have a clue as to what was actually happening in the Corleone family.
FFC also had some fun with the chart. If you look it up in Harlan Lebo's "The Godfather Legacy," you'll see some funny names. You'll also see FFC's father in there.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Who were the underbosses? #31035
07/30/05 07:09 PM
07/30/05 07:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 128
manhattan, new york
don capili Offline
Made Member
don capili  Offline
Made Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 128
manhattan, new york
if i was don vito though i would choose sonny or clemenza as my next successor.

Re: Who were the underbosses? #31036
07/30/05 07:46 PM
07/30/05 07:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 701
Connecticut
Don Lights Offline
Underboss
Don Lights  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 701
Connecticut
is the underboss more powerful than the consligere or no?

Re: Who were the underbosses? #31037
07/30/05 09:24 PM
07/30/05 09:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
An underboss directs street action. He's the operations director in the field. A consigliere gives his advice to the boss. Nevertheless, he can have considerable power and influence depending on how he plays it. I would go with the underboss.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Who were the underbosses? #31038
07/30/05 10:47 PM
07/30/05 10:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,512
Right here, but I'd rather be ...
long_lost_corleone Offline
Underboss
long_lost_corleone  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,512
Right here, but I'd rather be ...
Quote
Originally posted by don capili:
if i was don vito though i would choose sonny or clemenza as my next successor.
Sonny? No. He ran the family into the ground while Vito was in the hospital. He let his emotions take the best of him.


"Somebody told me when the bomb hits, everybody in a two mile radius will be instantly sublimated, but if you lay face down on the ground for some time, avoiding the residual ripples of heat, you might survive, permanently fucked up and twisted like you're always underwater refracted. But if you do go gas, there's nothing you can do if the air that was once you is mingled and mashed with the kicked up molecules of the enemy's former body. Big-kid-tested, motherf--ker approved."
Re: Who were the underbosses? #31039
07/31/05 08:33 AM
07/31/05 08:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Quote
Originally posted by long_lost_corleone:
Sonny? No. He ran the family into the ground while Vito was in the hospital. He let his emotions take the best of him.
Sonny didn't run the family into the ground. It's true that by letting his emotions take the best of him he indirectly caused Sollozo's plan to take shape and he eventually cost himself his own life. But if you really anylize the survival of the Corleone family after Vito is shot you realize that Sonny actually did a good job sustaining the family by keeping the other families at bay during the war. As our esteemed friend Turnbull has pointed out, Sonny was a fierce warrior during the war.
He may not have been a good Don overall, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that he ran the Corleone family into the ground.


Don Cardi cool



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Who were the underbosses? #31040
07/31/05 05:04 PM
07/31/05 05:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 770
UK
The Dr. who fixed Lucy Offline
Underboss
The Dr. who fixed Lucy  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 770
UK
Quote
Olivant
An underboss directs street action
so Underboss = Street Boss? (as in the Junior / Tony relationship in Sopranos)


Joey ...

BANG BANG

... Saza!
Re: Who were the underbosses? #31041
07/31/05 05:36 PM
07/31/05 05:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
Yes. Junior is still titular head of the Soprano family. But everyone looks to Tony for direction and strategy.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Who were the underbosses? #31042
07/31/05 06:27 PM
07/31/05 06:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 770
UK
The Dr. who fixed Lucy Offline
Underboss
The Dr. who fixed Lucy  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 770
UK
So, is an underboss simply the most influential / powerful caporegime? Or is it an actual appointment?


Joey ...

BANG BANG

... Saza!
Re: Who were the underbosses? #31043
07/31/05 07:23 PM
07/31/05 07:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
It's an appointment. In Tony's case, it's by default. Junior is allowed to remain as titular family head in consequence of his attempt to eliminate Tony. That helps to keep some of the heat off Tony.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."

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