Was it Mikes idea to go after Vegas, or was it Sonny's??? When they are in the Don's room after he gets back from the hospital, Sonny says they are sending Fredo to Vegas, and Fredo says (In the wimpiest voice ever!) "I'm going to learn the casino business"
So I wonder if they would have gone after Vegas if Sonny would have lived or if they would have stayed in New York.
My guess is that Sonny would have stayed in New York and run the family there, and Michael would have gone to Vegas when he got back, and ran the family in Vegas.....input please!!!!!!
Thanks!

I'm not so concerned as to whos idea it was--They would've ended up there eventually anyways. With the success of Bugsy Siegel's Flamingo casino, it seemed like an intelligent move to get a piece of Vegas for the mob in the late 40s. Sooner or later, Corleone would've ended up there.

That would have been an interesting story line if Sonny had lived, and a way that Michael could've handled the "legitimate" end of the business while Sonny stayed in NY to run the bookmaking, etc.

Frankly, the story is more about the family and various locations are secondary and taken from real life events of the time. Fact is Sonny HAD to die and would've been killed eventually regardless of where he was. He could NOT have lived and could NOT have remained Don since he was such a bad one anyway.

Had it not been for Sonny's death, Michael would not have run anything, anywhere.

The main point of the story (in my opinion) is the gradual shifting of reigns over several years, to the most unlikely and most resistant of Vito's sons....Michael Corleone.

Without that main focus there is still a story...but not a very interesting one.

Apple

WHAT???? Its a story???? I thought it really happened!!

It did happened , under which rock have you been living??

Apple and Long Lost.....your egos have totally clouded your mind......to say Sonny HAD to die makes no sense......why did he have to die??? Just cause he was a better soldier than a Don?? What facts do you have to back this "theory" up?
Long lost......you are not concerned who made the decision to move to Vegas??? The decision that saved the family. I think that is huge. In the movie they seem to give Michael credit for the move to Vegas, but Sonny sending Fredo to Vegas was the first major step. How do you know that they would have gone to Vegas??? How do you know that with the money they lost in the War, that they could even afford to bid on Vegas???? Hmm???
Hopefully other readers will find this a bit more interesting than you two did, and maybe I can get some real insight on this question, rather than people who think they are too good to answer a simple question.
There.....now you done gone and made me mad!!!!

Remember BarrytheBull, this is business, not personal.

Because that's how Puzo wrote the novel upon which the movie is based. Why don't you ask him why Sonny HAD to die. Oh, but wait a minute...Puzo is DEAD!!! Oh, well...there goes that idea. Here's a thought...perhaps Barzini WANTED Sonny dead, because he felt it would cause Vito to buckle and end the war so they could all get back to business and make money in the drug world.

Hmmmmmmm.....????

Not a bit.

All good 'theories'. So why didn't you present them in your opening post instead reducing it to wondering what would happen if Sonny hadn't died? Hmmm?????

Because after all, Sonny HAD to die.



Well, so far the only 'answer' besides the ones from 'us two' was from someone who merely stated that it would be interesting to see what would happen if Sonny had lived and then simply repeated your own initial theory.

Go and take a look at past GF Trilogy threads. There are times when people open a thread with an entire screenfull of thoughts on one particular scene or topic within the trilogy. THEN...people bounce back with input and their own thoughts and they usually become pretty interesting conversations. That's what you might want to do if you want to initiate a real discussion....

I gave you my 'input' based on your opening post...which was what you asked for.

Now, BarrytheBull...if you're going to get every time a particular 'input' doesn't seem to match your needs...then you may be in for some future problems here on the BB.

Take care of yourself.

Apple

You know Barry, Italian women...

As we do regarding so much of the Board's content, we speculate about who made the Vegas decision. I imagine that the Don had Vegas on his radar screen for years and would have proceeded in that direction had events not overtaken him. Those events placed certain decision making in Sonny's hands for a time. It was probably Sonny who decided to move Fredo out to Vegas as a way to introduce a Corleone presence in Vegas and to utilize Fredo in a fairly innocuous way.

As for Sonny having to die, I don't get it.

Thanks Olivant.....that is a very good reponse.....it is all I am looking for.

The Corleone Family already had a stake in Nevada before Michael assumed the Donship. Remember when Michael met with Moe Green, he said that the family gave him a big chunk of money to finish his hotel. I think that even if Michael had been killed in Sicily or never got involved in the family business, either Vito or Sonny or both would have expanded their interests in Nevada. What pushed Michael over the edge--that is, to relocate the entire family operation to Nevada--was his massacre of all the other Dons in NY in 1955. He then was able to leave the "olive oil business" to an ally (Clemenza) and attempt to "go legit."

I hear ya Enzo.......I've said my piece....time to move on....lol.

The question here was a "specualtive" question, Who Thought of Vegas?

No different than when we do the "what if" posts.

So I do not see why anyone here should chastise Barry for posting a legitimate speculative question.

Keep em coming Barry. ( but one word of advice, don't ever take it personal ).


Don Cardi

so what about Italian women, Enzo????

I think what Enzo was trying to say was....."You know Italian women Barry.......they are the most radiant, beautiful women on the planet!"
He just didn't get a chance to finish his comment.

was he being offered cannoli by an Italian woman?

There's a scene in the novel where Vito, Tom, Clemenza, and Tessio get together to discuss the results of the big Dons meeting earlier in the day.

Vito says

Tom, I want you to put together a group of men who will go to Las Vegas and give me a full report on what is going on out there.....let's find out what really can be done out there.

So I'd say that initially the interest in Vegas was the Don's.

Hey Lavinia... I love Italian women (and I hate canoli)
... too bad you're already waiting for Al's proposal.