Was looking up Robert Duvall's page on IMDB, and found this, in reference to GF3:

[on the reason he didn't appear in The Godfather Part III] "If they paid Pacino twice what they paid me, that's fine, but not three or four times, which is what they did. (Francis Ford Coppola) came to my farm, parked his car ... went in the kitchen. (I) said: 'I know you always wanted the crab cake recipe, let me cook it for you.' Oh, he loves to eat, so I cooked the crab cake... and he wrote it down ... and he forgot it, so he called twice. He was ... more concerned that he forgot the crab cake recipe than would I be in Godfather III." [January 8, 2004]

LOL, I hope that last bit was a joke...

I didn't like it that Duvall wasn't in GF 3. I really liked his character and he's a good actor. A little shame.

I know that sometimes I fall into the trap also of thinking that actors have the same personal qualities that they portray on the screen. Duvall is probably just as nice a guy as Tom Hagen. But, quibbling over his pay in the cinema pecking order is disappointing. I am sure that he was offered millions. Of course, we all know how tough it is to survive on just millions as opposed to lots and lots of millions.

At the time, Pacino was paid roughly $5 million dollars for Part III. To be offering a renowned character actor like Duvall, considering how long he had been around and the renowned film projects he'd done, about a fourth of that is a little insulting. Personally, I feel he was being surprisingly modest by saying he had no problem Pacino getting twice what he did.

He didn't had a lead character...so then It's fair he doesn't get that much. Ofcourse he had an important role, but not as far as Michael Corleone. So twice would at least be acceptable.

I agree, Vito's. Duvall is one of the greatest actors of all time. He's certainly entitled to ask what he can get. If we could do an analysis of every post on these boards, we'd probably find that Tom Hagen is the most admired, appealing character in GF and II. He could ask what he wanted for III.

This discussion reminds me of the player for the Eagles who is pissed because they won't renegotiate his contract, they expect him to scrape by on only 49 million. They just treat these poor stars like dirt.

In todays world, its all about the dollars.

I agree. If they offered Duvall minimum wage, that's one thing. But, they probably offered him several million. Considering what the Trilogy represents in terms of cinematic quality, excellence, and history, it seems he would have jumped at the chance to be a part of it. Afterall, it is not as if he needed the money. It's not as if he is just starting out in movies. How much money does one person need. Keep in mind that Duvall was not intended to be the movie's star.

You have to wonder, though, how the film--both plot and performance--would have been improved (immeasurably, IMO) by using Duvall instead of the Melanoma Poster Boy. Duvall would have had a real role, and the plot undoubtedly would have been bolstered for him.

Do we know if the storyline/script was written when Duvall was approached? Was he turning down the role that Hamiliton had? If so, that was a small part. I would venture to guess that if Duvall was in GF3 that the role would have been bigger.

It's hard for us peon's to know what goes on the mind of the actor. Are they secure in their vocation. Is every film opportunity looked on as their last? am I now only good enough for B movies? or Hey, I'm better than that! I don't think we the viewer can be too judgemental about the psychology of the movie industry and the personalities that we know little about.

There's no comparison. Duvall didn't have a contract to do
GF III. He's entitled to ask for whatever he wants. T.O. accepted $49 million, and now he wants more.

Tom Hagen wasn't a lead character?! Are you kidding me?

Tom was consigliere to Vito. Tom was the one who handled the Woltz and Sollozo business. Tom was the one who broke the news to the Don on his son's murder. Tom was the interim Don while Mike was away on business in Cuba. Tom got Geary into the Corleone family's pocket. I could probably name a dozen more off the top of my head, but you catch my drift. Tom was a lead character. He wasn't the lead, but he was a lead.

Tom was as integral a part in the first two films (especially Part II) as Mike's character was, IMO. Therefore I see nothing wrong with him being a little less than enthused at making so much less than Pacino. He ranks up there on my list of the greatest actors ever. Seeing as he stated he would have been fine making half of what Pacino made, he wasn't asking for much.

I shudder to compare Duvall to that *&(*%$(*&* T.O.

Duvall is a great actor, and by the time of GF III he was into financing some really great indie type movies including the one where he plays a fallen preacher, and also Sling Blade, for which he put up his own money. I think there were other projects too. I think he knew very well that GFIII would not be what the first two were, and that it was being made as more of a money making deal than an artistic one. He was right to hold out, and if they wanted him they should have paid him.

I dont know if the story would have been better with him or not. I mean he is certainly ten times the actor George Hamilton is, but on the other hand I think Tom Hagen was a better lawyer, and he would have seen through that "Subject to ratification in Rome" loophole that Harrison seems to have overlooked.

Also I guess they would have had to explain the whole mistress thing with his son having become a priest and all.

Finally, if Tom were around, I don't know if Connie and Vincent would have been in a position to order the hit on Zasa.

I guess - and now, I'm only assuming - we would have seen Tom clashing with Connie over what the Family should do with Zasa, much like we saw Michael doing. I mean, presumably, it was Tom who helped Michael the most (nearly totally) achieve legitimacy. Again - presumably - it would be Tom most reluctant to return the Family to more criminal dealings.

Interestingly, one of my Coppola reference books, ('Coppola' by James Clarke), had this tiny, blink-and-you-miss tidbit about Tom's possible role in GF3, (the bold lettering is words I've emphasised):
(on writing the screenplay for Part III)" On 6th August 1989, in his office at his Napa Valley home, Francis Coppola drafted out his basic game plan for the structure of what would become 'The Godfather Part III'. Coppola's story-map split the film into five acts and he titled his pages of notes 'The Tragedy of Michael Corleone'. The notes include the phrases 'unravelling of puzzle' 'catasthrophe' and 'Hagen's suicide'"

... interesting, no? Wonder what would have made Tom go the way of Frankie...

Hagen's suicide! Wow.


There is no question that Hagen would have battled with Michael over the Zasa thing and also over Vincent Mancini coming into the fold and rising within the family so quickly.

I imagine the latter dialogue thus:

Tom - Mikie, just hear me out. You moved to New York and you sold your interests in the casinos. You're cashing out with all the remaining Dons in Atlantic City. You are close to becoming the controling shareholder in the largest real estate holding company on earth. Why do you need Vincent to keep an eye on Joey Zasa?

Mike - I have to protect my family.

Tom - (getting angry and statrting to raise his voice) - Protect your family? Who are you protecting Mike? Kay is remarried, Anthony has gone off to be an opera singer, and your daughter is more likely to be hurt than helped by Vincent being around.

Mike - He is my nephew. Sonny was my brother.

Tom - I was just as much a brother to Sonny as you were, now be reasonable! Just pay Zasa off in Atlantic City and be done with it. Pay him even though he doesnt deserve it, and for once and for all you will be out.

Mike - Tom,you surprise me. After all these years you still don't understand how these people think.

Tom (Shouting) - I was consigliere to your father! I was consigliere to Sonny and when he ignored my advice look what happened! And you know as well as I that Vincent has the same temper his father had. For once, just try to be reasonable!

Mike (gets that dark look and says in a very soft but angry voice) - You boast about what you did as consigliere to my father who was shot, and to Sonny who wass murdered? Cause if you want to tell me about your skills as a consigliere, maybe you should think about how you underestimated Geary and how you never saw Roth's Senate hearings coming. Now are you going to go weak on me again? Cause if you are, you can just retire now, go to Rome and watch your son say Mass while you sneak off to the Riveria with your mistress. Now are you with me in these things that must happen with Zasa?

Tom - Si, fra.

Mike - Bene.

Very good! You know, I'm suprised no-one's thought of getting the GF screenplay (or Geoff's thorough transcript) and intigrating Hagen into the plot before.

Here's some more of Tom Hagen IF he had appeared in GF III.

Gilday - Six hundred million.

Michael looks to Hagen...

Michael - We have six hundred million in Zurich. Now, Tom will send a transmittal letter today directing that the money be held in escrow for the Vatican Bank. Three hundred million will be transferred upon the Vatican's vote in New York and the second three hundred million will be delivered upon final ratification of the Immobiliare deal in Rome.

Gilday - I see your attorney has done his homework.

Hagen (nods slightly)


Gilday (takes a nervous draw from his cigarette) - It is not as easy as that. There are special procedures in place that require notification and waiting periods. The board cannot formally ratify this for several months, but it is a mere formality.

Michael- Tom?

Hagen - Your excellency, with all due respect, something cannot be a mere formality and something requiring formal notification and waiting periods all at the same time. According to the Immobilare by laws the board can waive notice and a formal meeting and the deal can be ratified by the Pope within a day of the shareholders' meeting here in New York.

Gilday - You overestimate my power.

Michael - You want the six hundred million or do you want the world to know what we know about the condition of the Vatican Bank? (He stands to leave) Think it over. Our offer is on the table for a week.

Cut to Michael's office. Tom, Neri and Michael are there.

Tom - You think he'll go for it?

Mike - I learned many things from my father, and one of them is that any dishonorable man will choose a bribe over disgrace. Now, this archbishop cant get away with the excuse that he only relied on friends for very long.

Tom - Our people in Rome say the Immobilare Board could stall this for some time, and even find a way to deny ratification. They say a Don Lucchese who has known connections in industry, and secret connections in the drug trade is joining a Swiss banker to form a consortium of European Catholic businessmen against our control.


Mike - Then we have to get ratification or the deal will be off one way or another.

Neri - Maybe we should send a message to Lucchese.

Mike - Its an option, but I'm gonna wait. Tom?

Tom - My guess is that the waiver will go through. Too many people on that board are implicated in the bank scandal. Your real problems will come after you take over control. They will be looking for a way to move you out.

Mike - By then, I'll be ready for them. Now is there anything else.

Tom - Something personal Mikie.

Mike - Al?
(Neri gets up, leaves the room and closes the door)

Tom - There's something going on between Mary and Vincent.
She's been seen going into his club in Little Italy and staying there for hours on end. We have to put an end to it.
Zasa has already tried to kill Vincent, and if the word gets out that he and Mary are involved, then she is in danger too.

Mike - Joey Zasa wouldnt have the power to hurt my daughter.

Tom - Unless he has permission from someone higher.


Mike - All right. I'll have Connie talk to Vincent and Mary, and then I'll talk to Vincent. We can't afford to have anything interfere with this Immobilare business right now.

Tom - I'll arrange a meeting for you and Vincent.

Cut to Terrace at Michael's Apartment. ( Tom is handing papers to Michael for his signature. They are having breakfast. A large bowl of oranges is on the table)

Mike - Pop hated foundations, and now look what we're doing.

Tom - Pop always wanted you to bring the family to prominence in the legitimate world. He'd understand.

(Andrew enters)

Andrew - Off to Rome.

Tom - I'll see you there next month. (They hug)

Andrew - Godfather, thank you. (He hugs Mike)

Mike - We're so proud of you Andrew.. all of us ...can you join us?

Andrew - No, I have to run but thanks just the same.

Andrew leaves

Tom - Who'd have guessed , my son a priest.

Mike - He always had the faith, Tom.

The telephone rings.

Mike - Yes?
(He listens)
Good. Good. It will be taken care of.

(He hangs up)

Tom - What was that?

Mike - The Archbishop,he and evidently the Pope himself have seen the merits of our offer. It seems the ratification in Rome will occur the day after the stockholder's meeting.

Tom - It was almost too easy...

Mike -- It is too easy. They're gonna come after me. Altobello is nothing more than another Tessio.

Tom - Altobello? You mean Zasa.

Mike - Zasa's a pozzo. He doesnt have the wit. Until this moment I didn't realize it, but its been Altobello all along. Altobello is in league with this Lucchese.

Tom - What are you gonna do?

Mike - Nothing now. Nothing until the deal is consumeted. You do something to postpone this Atlantic City meeting for a while all right? And whatever I may do later is of no concern to you. Where's Neri?

EXCELLENT! Keep going dontomasso. We want MORE!

Strange! This is like the "My GF IV scripts"-topics, but now a real movie is re-made.

And what is more strange, I like these dialogues far more than the real ones in GF III.

But if I'm allowed to criticise: It doesn't bring much new things. If there was one thing about Part III that was good, it was that the films were renewing the trilogy. What you are writing, except for the quality dialogues is more ... Part 2.5

But no question that Duvall would've made it a better movie.

No criticism taken. it is supposed to be 2.5

MORE "2.5" (GF III if Hagen were alive)

Michael is recovering from his diabetic stroke. He has learned that his son will have his operatic debut in Sicily.
As set forth before, he got the Immobiliare deal done without ever having to go to Italy.

Tom - Mikie, its too dangerous for you to go to Sicily.

Mike - So what am I supposed to do? I'm supposed to hide here like a woman because I am afraid of somebody? I'm supposed to dishonor my only son who already thinks I hate him? Is that your advice?

Tom - Mikie....

Mike - Tom, it may be easy for you. Your kids did not suffer as mine did. You kept all of it contained. You involvement with the family, your mistress...all of it.

Tom - Is this necessary Mike?

Mike - Hiding isn't the answer Tom. I've already made my plans.

Tom - What Mike? Is there anything I can do?

Mike - It's all been arranged through Neri. Some of it you don't need to know about. Some of it I will tell you, because I need your help. Don Tomassino's organization has word that the one pulling the strings in Europe is Lucchese. He is very scared right now because the pope is dying. If he doesnt control the next papal election, and word is he won't, the whole thing is going to collapse around him.

Now all we are gonna do is speed things up. This Pope will outlive Altobello, Lucchese, the Archbishop, and that Swiss Banker.

Tom - Mike, you already control Immobiliare. DOntomassino can provide security in Italy and now you want to get rid of Altobello, an Archbishop and two of Eurpoe's top industrialists?

Mike - You surprise me, Tom. You act as if these people deserve anything more than say, Moe Green or Hyman Roth, who would still be alive if I'd listened to you.

Tom - But if you're found out, there could be a shareholders' revolt in Immobiliare, and trouble with the commission here.

Mike - Tom, my father taught me many things, and one of them was that people who invest their money have no loyalty to anything but a return on their investments. With that in mind, they only care about how much they make, not who is making it for them. As for Altobello, the Comission won't care. For all intents and purposes he died the day Vincent killed Zasa.

Tom - But you said you were upset about that.

Mike - That's what I wanted Vincent and Connie to think.

Tom - So where do I fit in?

Mike - I want you to make this business with Vincent to go away. Now, Connie is pushing him to succeed me, and he's acting like I am half dead and about to turn things over to him. And then there is this business with my daughter.

Tom - Its infatuation. She'll...

Mike - You talk to me about my DAUGHTER? (in full gravel voiced Pacino rant mode)

You talk to me about Mary?
You talk to me about how she grew up without a strong father figure?
You talk to me about how needy Mary is?
Ohhh I hope not, Tom, I hope you arent telling me how my daughter feels....or how she thinks.
Mary is a searcher.
A seeker.
She is looking for something permanent to hold on to, while all the time she is grasping at Vincent who is no more solid than Santino.

Tom - So you want Vincent out of the picture but you want it done in a way that Connie doesnt know, and Mary doesnt turn on you.

Mike - I want Vincent out of the picture before the Opera in Sicily. That's the only thing that can guarantee my safety and the safety of my family.

Tom - How do you want it handled?

Mike - (not irritated, but now using flattery) Tom, you are my older brother. You are as wise and as cunning as Pop. When there was no way anyone could get that Hollywood producer to give the role to Johnny, Pop sent you. He didn't give you any instructions, and you delivered. When we needed to reach out to Frankie Five Angels, who did I choose? Neri? He's muscle. Loyal but not creative. Think about it Tom. Come up with a plan.


TO BE CONTINUED

Bravo Bravo

I likey

Scene: Daytime, inside of the front door of Vincent's club in Little Italy. One of Vincent's people opens the door. We see Hagen talking to him and

Tom - I am Tom Hagen, here to see Vincent Mancini.

Hood - Wait here. (goes upstairs and knocks on a door) Vinnie a guy says he's Tom Hagen here to see you.

Vincent - Bing him up. I'll see him alone.

(Cut to indside of club. Vincent and Tom are seated.)

Vincent - Tom, anything I can get you? SOemthing to eat? A drink? I have some gnocchi...

Tom - Thanks Vincent, no.

Vincent - Mike sent you here (more than a statement than a question)

Tom - nods.

Vincent - Mike sent you to tell me something he doesn't want to bring up himself.

Tom - You always were bright, Vincent.

Vincent - He wants me to do something.

Tom - More like something he wants you to stop doing.

Vincent - Tom I wont do that.

Tom - Its dangerous.

Vincent - Yeah, so what. So I should be scared?

Tom - Its not your safety that concerns Michael.

Vincent - I can take care of Mary.

Tom - Vincent, Michael says part of your learning will be to study the ancient myths of Zeus and Hera, Oedipus and the biblical accounts of Sarah and Abraham.

Vincent - Yeah, whats that stuff gotta do with me?

Tom - They are old warnings that say its dangerous to love people within your family the way you and Mary love each other.

Vincent - So Uncle Mike wants me to give her up? Is this some test of loyalty, because if it is...look tell Uncle Mike if there is anything I can do other than this...

Tom - I don't know Vincent, I don't think he takes any refusal as an act of loyalty. I have never known him to ask a second favor.

Vincent (pleading) - Anything, Tom, anything but what you ask.

Tom - Well there could be something...

(Cut to Michael's office)

Michael - So he went for it.

Tom - Yeah, Mikie, he's making preparations now.

Michael - Good. Now lets get Connie in here. (He lifts the phone and pushes a button) find Connie and ask her to step in.

Tom - How are you going to handle this?

Mike - Let me do the talking.

(Connie enters)

Connie - Michael, what is it?

Mike - Connie, sit down. (She sits)

Mike (leaning forward at his desk) Connie I know how fond you are of Vincent, and I respect how far he's come. Today I sent Tom here to talk to him about Mary, and he refuses to give her up.

Connie - Michael, I know its wrong, but maybe it should just run its course.

Mike - Connie, Connie Connie, Connie...you have such a good outlook....Vincent has proposed an alternative. He says he will go to Sicily now, and put down all this trouble as a show of loyalty.

Connie - Michael, give him the chance.

Mike - You know, Pop always said never ask a second favor. Why should I do anything differently?

Connie - He's your nephew, Michael, your own blood.

Mike - I know.

Connie - Your own blood as much as Sonny or FREDO.

Mike (winces) - All right. Just this once. I will allow him this favor. But on one condition. You tell Mary she is not to interfere with this trip.

Connie - Thank you Michael. (she gets up and leaves).

Tom - So is it all in place?

Mike - No.

Tom - What is leftfor me to do?

Mike - I want you to pay a visit to our friend Altobello. Tell him that Vincent knows that he backed Joey Zasa, and that he knows there are people in Immobiliare that Altobello himself answers to. I want you to convince Altobello that Vincent is out of control. That his temper has got the better of him, and that he is going to Sicily without my authorization, and without my permission. Tell him what happens to him in Sicily will not be of my concern.

Mikie -- You're...

Mike (interrupts) - You said you were with me in these things, Tom. If you dont have the stomach...the guts...(in full throated Pacino rant) ....the character....the very essence of what made my Father strong...what makes me strong...what has made the Corleone family strong...then walk out the door right now.

Tom - Mikie....

Mike - Then you'll do as I ask.

Tom (resigned) consider it done.


(Two months later. It is late at night. Tom is in Michael Corleone's kitchen mixing a drink. Mary enters)

Mary - Tom! What are you doing here?

Tom - Actually Mary I am here to see you.

Mary - At this hour? But you are here in the kitchen. Why didn't you call, or wait until tomorrow.

Tom - It can't wait Mary.

(almost involuntarily she sits)

Mary - Then tell me.

Tom - Vincent's dead. He and a set of twins he had as body guards were shot on the steps of the Opera House in Palermo.

(Mary breaks down)

(Tom hands her a handkerchief, she dries her eyes and TOm takes her hand)

Tom - I'm so sorry Mary.

Mary - My father sent him there!

Tom - No Mary. He volunteered to go. He died for the family. I've already told your father about this, and he will know what to do.

Mary - (crying) It never stops.

Tom - Mary, I love you like you were my own daughter. There are things that must be done to settle what's happened to Vincent. He died for your safety, Mary, and for the family. Talk to Connie about this.

Mary - I loved him.

Tom - In time Mary, in time, you will love somebody else.

I'm not sure I like the ending... Anyhow, theres really interesting dialogue in this thread..

Has anyone considered re-writing Part III to incorporate Hagen in it, but not changing the storyline completely (in sort improve the existing Part III screenplay)?

It would be a great read...