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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Lompac]
#524405
12/13/08 10:32 PM
12/13/08 10:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Everyone celebrates it so the movies are closed. Can't go there. Really? ________________________________ Opening On December 25th, 2008 : Bedtime Stories The Curious Case of Benjamin Button Marley & Me The Spirit Waltz with Bashir ________________________________
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Capo de La Cosa Nostra]
#524407
12/13/08 10:55 PM
12/13/08 10:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984 California
The Italian Stallionette
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
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I am surprised that cinemas (or movie theaters to us) are not open in other areas.  It's very common to go to see a movie on Christmas Day. When I was a kid we always had a big dinner at my grandma's house, and then someone would take the kids to see a movie. We always went during most holidays (Well, the kids did). The movies DC refers to are movies that will debut on Christmas day in local movie theaters. I guess we do things differently here in the U.S. It would seem very strange if all movie theaters closed. TIS
Last edited by The Italian Stallionette; 12/13/08 10:56 PM.
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK
"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Capo de La Cosa Nostra]
#524417
12/13/08 11:20 PM
12/13/08 11:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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That cinemas open on Christmas Day in the US shows the extent of its commercialisation; that people go to the cinema on Christmas Day shows the ordinariness of it, in terms of outdatedness - and I speak for the US, that most capitalistic (and Christian) of countries.
Money talks; as does, in other ways, familial emptiness. Trying reading TIS' post above. The movies have been open on Christmas Day since I was a kid. That some people dwell in the drool of their own vapid lives on Christmas Day can be the result of many things including their chosen alienation.
Last edited by olivant; 12/13/08 11:23 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Capo de La Cosa Nostra]
#524418
12/13/08 11:22 PM
12/13/08 11:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,944 East Bay
Blibbleblabble
Poo-tee-weet?
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Poo-tee-weet?

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,944
East Bay
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That cinemas open on Christmas Day in the US shows the extent of its commercialisation; that people go to the cinema on Christmas Day shows the ordinariness of it, in terms of outdatedness - and I speak for the US, that most capitalistic (and Christian) of countries.
Money talks; as does, in other ways, familial emptiness. So if it's a family tradition, as TIS said, for families to take their kids to a movie on Christmas day, then it is familial emptiness? Even though the kids might love the tradition and look forward to it, regardless of the commercial motivation behind the theaters? If people enjoy paying money to see a movie on Christmas day then I don't see the problem with people having a good time doing it.
Last edited by Blibbleblabble; 12/13/08 11:23 PM.
"There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want." -Calvin and Hobbes
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Blibbleblabble]
#524419
12/13/08 11:28 PM
12/13/08 11:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543 Gateshead, UK
Capo de La Cosa Nostra
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
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Refer to the first sentence too, not just the second. There are two points that compliment one another. On the one hand, them being open shows just how much of a leech Hollywood (capitalism wretchified) is, and how anti-Christian it is... on the other, that families go to see films on Christmas Day show how Christian they are; Hollywood's narrative and economic tendencies are very Christian - though if it were that Christian, staff would have a day off on this so-called "national holiday".
Like I said, money talks.
...dot com bold typeface rhetoric. You go clickety click and get your head split. 'The hell you look like on a message board Discussing whether or not the Brother is hardcore?
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Capo de La Cosa Nostra]
#524421
12/13/08 11:31 PM
12/13/08 11:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543 Gateshead, UK
Capo de La Cosa Nostra
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
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Refer to the first sentence too, not just the second. There are two points that compliment one another. On the one hand, them being open shows just how much of a leech Hollywood (capitalism wretchified) is, and how anti-Christian it is... on the other, that families go to see films on Christmas Day show how Christian they are; Hollywood's narrative and economic tendencies are very Christian - though if it were that Christian, staff would have a day off on this so-called "national holiday".
Like I said, money talks. And, predicting accusations of self-defeatism, Christianity in itself is self-defeating. Hence why my two points contradict one another.
...dot com bold typeface rhetoric. You go clickety click and get your head split. 'The hell you look like on a message board Discussing whether or not the Brother is hardcore?
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Capo de La Cosa Nostra]
#524423
12/14/08 12:10 AM
12/14/08 12:10 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300 New York
Sicilian Babe
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
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Capo, I don't understand what the theaters being open has to do with Christianity. I have lots of friends who are Jewish. Are they anti-Christian if they want to go to a movie on Christmas?? That's as silly as me being accused of anti-semitism if I go to a movie on Passover. It's not MY holiday, just as Christmas isn't a holiday for someone who isn't a Christian.
As for "celebrating" the holiday if you're an atheist, I've said in the past that it's a lie. I have a friend who is Jewish and she tells me that she "loves celebrating Christmas". I told her that she doesn't. Christmas, by definition, is the celebration of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. If you don't believe that, you can't celebrate Christmas.
You can celebrate lights and trees and presents. It's not the same.
President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Lompac]
#524451
12/14/08 02:59 AM
12/14/08 02:59 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539 My own world.
whisper
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,539
My own world.
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I definitely can appreciate the meaning Christmas has to Christians, As I was raised in a church till I was 11 and have read the Bible a few times. But, It is commercialized completely now, I think some non-Christians look at Christmas as a time to spend with their families and be thankful and giving.
I mean to Christians, wouldn't the Christmas tree, Santa clause and flying Reindeer be false magic and in some ways demonic. Santa if anything, is there to take away the "true" meaning of Christmas.
Also, It was originally a Pagan holiday that the Catholic church combined the two together.
So, I don't think it's wrong for non-Christians to celebrate the holiday in their own way. Also, I'm not an Atheist, I do believe in a Creator, Just not the same way as religious people do.
The hero and the coward both feel the same thing, but the hero uses his fear, projects it onto his opponent, while the coward runs. It's the same thing, fear, but it's what you do with it that matters. Cus D'Amato
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: MaryCas]
#524458
12/14/08 09:16 AM
12/14/08 09:16 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602 Yunkai
afsaneh77
Mother of Dragons
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Mother of Dragons

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
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I would hope you don't buy gifts for other people because the gift-giving has it's tradition in the Christmas spirit, which is based on the gifts of the Magi (three wisemen) who visited Jesus. While there is custom to bring gifts when you go visit a new born here for the first time, as is over there, though it is actually before the mother gives birth, here for our new year we give gifts or just cash to our youngsters. And our new year is in the Spring, and has been celebrated even longer than the birth of Christ. This custom of gift giving on New Year's Day has no religious significance whatsoever. Many traditions that are integrated in Christmas have come from German winter festivities and are older than Christianity. It's in good spirit to start a new year exchanging gifts. I don't see why anyone should claim the ownership of this custom. As for whatever day we could have off and spend it however we like, that day would be a great day for me, I don't really care why it is a holiday. Sadly we don't have Christmas off here and even our Christians celebrate birth of Christ on Jan 6, so I would be working.
"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: whisper]
#524459
12/14/08 09:26 AM
12/14/08 09:26 AM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766 South of the Pinelands
MaryCas
OP
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OP

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
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Also, It was originally a Pagan holiday that the Catholic church combined the two together.
This combining was done as a ruse so the Romans wouldn't find cause to arrest more Christians. My dentist who was Jewish went to a Broadway show on Christmas Day. He said the traffic was light and it was easy to get around. We all seem to agree that Christmas has become more of a secular holiday, but do Atheists give presents and say "Merry Christmas"? And if they do are they disrespecting the origins of the celebration?
Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: svsg]
#524509
12/14/08 08:47 PM
12/14/08 08:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766 South of the Pinelands
MaryCas
OP
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OP

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
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do Atheists give presents and say "Merry Christmas"? And if they do are they disrespecting the origins of the celebration? I was expecting this question, as we had the same discussion last Christmas. Religious people will be offended even if an atheist says "Happy Holidays" and exchanges gifts. But that doesn't answer the question, no matter how many years it is asked.
Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Blibbleblabble]
#524523
12/14/08 11:07 PM
12/14/08 11:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300 New York
Sicilian Babe
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
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Am I offended? A little. Why? Because it is NOT a secular day. It's called CHRISTMAS and if you don't believe that it is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, son of God, then you can't "celebrate" Christmas. As I said earlier, you can celebrate presents and lights, but you are NOT celebrating the spirit of the holiday.
That doesn't mean that someone who is of another faith can't enjoy it or come to my house to participate in our Christmas Eve Feast of the Seven Fishes, but they can't celebrate the essence of the holiday.
I can go to a Seder and enjoy observing it, enjoy the rituals, the history, the food and its meaning, but I'm not "celebrating" Passover because I'm not Jewish.
Perhaps it's the word "celebrate" that is my personal problem.
President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Sicilian Babe]
#524529
12/14/08 11:52 PM
12/14/08 11:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Perhaps it's the word "celebrate" that is my personal problem. BINGO.... we have a winner here.
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: SC]
#524531
12/15/08 12:29 AM
12/15/08 12:29 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,330 New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
The Don
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The Don

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,330
New Jersey, USA
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I don't know if it's the word "celebrate" -- I "celebrated" Seder with friends once, and I'm not Jewish. I celebrated with them, and with all interest and due respect for it. I'd gladly share in the celebration of any holidays with those who normally practice them -- in fact, I welcome it to learn more about different cultures and beliefs. I really don't think I'm disrespecting their beliefs by my presence in their celebration. And while there, sure, I'm celebrating it whether I personally believe it or not, because it's not about me, it's about them and their beliefs and festivities. A majority of self-proclaimed Christians don't celebrate the true meaning of Christmas either -- unless you count that one hour in church per year as "celebrating" -- so how can we possibly exclude non-Christians? Most everyone I assume celebrates Easter, but I bet most people don't even know what it means. I don't care if atheists color eggs and eat chocolate rabbits. I don't care if Buddhists put up Christmas trees and sing Silent Night -- and I'm sure pagans don't care if we Christians enjoy their All Hallow's Eve every October 31st while dressed up like hideous evil creatures. IT'S ALL GOOD. It's only not good when people start disrespecting other people's beliefs, or prohibiting them from celebrating their holidays. I personally welcome diversity and want to learn what I can from it. But all this nit-picking uptightness about public displays is a disgrace. It's a shame that Christmas has become a hugely secular holiday beyond its original Christian (and previously pagan) roots. Everyone should celebrate it how they see fit, how they enjoy it, and how they spread joy to others -- whether they're Christian or not. What's more Christian than sharing... including such a joyous holiday? For some it's Christ's Mass, for others it's Santa Claus and Rudolf. And for many, it's BOTH. Sauseege his own. 
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey!  lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: J Geoff]
#524537
12/15/08 12:52 AM
12/15/08 12:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300 New York
Sicilian Babe
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
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For some it's Christ's Mass, for others it's Santa Claus and Rudolf. And for many, it's BOTH. Sauseege his own. No, to me that's the difference. It's either a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, Son of God, or it's not. That IS Christmas. Would I EXCLUDE a non-Christian from my Christmas table? That would sort of kill the whole meaning of it, wouldn't it?? My daughter is dating a Jewish boy. She's going to his house for Chanukah and he's coming with us to my brother's for Christmas Eve. I hope that they both learn something from being exposed to other faiths. I plan on buying him a gift; however, although he will be celebrating WITH us, he's not going to be celebrating Christmas. And that's as it should be. To me, you have to fully embrace the significance of the holiday in order of the holiday in order to celebrate it, but that's MY interpretation.
President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
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Re: Atheists, Agnostics and Christmas
[Re: Sicilian Babe]
#524538
12/15/08 12:58 AM
12/15/08 12:58 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,330 New Jersey, USA
J Geoff
The Don
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The Don

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,330
New Jersey, USA
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Maybe it is just semantics then... lol
I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey!  lol Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
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