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Re: Couldn't MIchael have sued McCluskey?
[Re: Lollygagers12]
#532102
02/18/09 10:52 PM
02/18/09 10:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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The family's urgent objective was to prevent another attempt on Vito's life. They needed to eliminate Mac and Sol ASAP. Suing McCluskey for assault would have been, at best, a long, protracted process. Vito would have been dead long before any suit came to trial. And it probably wouldn't have because all the witnesses were cops, who'd put up the famous "blue wall of silence" to protect Mac.
A more credible alternative to Michael killing Mac and Sol would have been for Tom to use the family's newspaper contacts to place a story about how Mac took bribes from organized crime and was in cahoots with Sol to kill Vito--attest the removal of the Corleone troops from the hospital. Given Vito's prominence, the police commissioner would have no choice but to assign uniformed cops to guard Vito, and to suspend Mac pending "further investigations." The Corleones then could have used their considerable political clout to have one or more of their judges and politicians call for Mac's dismissal from the force--and to round up Sol and deport him. But then we wouldn't have had a GF Trilogy.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Couldn't MIchael have sued McCluskey?
[Re: Lollygagers12]
#532118
02/19/09 10:55 AM
02/19/09 10:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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I don't understand why Michael couldn't sue Captain McCluskey for striking him outside of the hospital. I mean, Michael had plenty of witnesses to testify against McCluskey and could have possibly gotten McCluskey suspended from the force or something along those lines. Michael could have played the "but I'm his son" type of excuse, which would have been perfectly legitimate because Michael wasn't part of the family at that time. I know the other Families would have been furious but like Clemenza said, wouldn't they still have to recognize Michael as a "civilian"? The witnesses were all cops. Had Hagen's people not arrived when they did Michael would have been arrested for several things including resisting arrest with violence, and the testimony would be that Michael hit MCluskey first. Also the Corleones don't seek justice through the judicial system.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Couldn't MIchael have sued McCluskey?
[Re: dontomasso]
#532125
02/19/09 12:49 PM
02/19/09 12:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Also the Corleones don't seek justice through the judicial system. That's it in a nutshell. Bonasera sues. Vito and sons don't.
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Re: Couldn't MIchael have sued McCluskey?
[Re: olivant]
#532137
02/19/09 04:16 PM
02/19/09 04:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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You also have to consider such things as New York state law and governmental immunity. Even an "ultra veris (under the cover of authority)" based suit against McCluskey might was not a slam dunk for petitioner especially back then. A tort of some sort might have been successful, but there probably were no federal civil rights laws back then on which to base a suit. And getting a local lawyer to take the case would have been a challenge. I'm surprised at you, oli. To even CONSIDER the possibility of a Corleone suing for justice in a court is showing a complete misunderstanding of the novel. It's impossible to even think. Vito Corleone and his world had no use for the judicial system. They took care of their own and metered out justice as they saw fit. This is a basic tenet of their world and it is described at the beginning of the novel (when Bonasera comes to Vito for justice). I repeat - Vito Corleone or any of his sons would NEVER EVER go to a court for justice.
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Re: Couldn't MIchael have sued McCluskey?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#532140
02/19/09 05:55 PM
02/19/09 05:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 381 The BING
Sopranorleone
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 381
The BING
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I also agree with everyone that posted here that no member of the blood Corleone family would ever use the judicial system. But, to be more clear, no Corleone would use the judicial system at that time. Later, in GFIII, Michael famously says, "I need more lawyers." In Michael's quest for legitimacy (however "real" that quest actually was), he had to bend and accept the democratic way of the corporate world.
In short, it was a matter of goals. In GF1, the goal was the immediate safety of Vito and the survival of the family. In GF3, the goal was being considered legit in the eyes of the public (at least, so says Michael).
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Re: Couldn't MIchael have sued McCluskey?
[Re: svsg]
#532151
02/19/09 07:38 PM
02/19/09 07:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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But Tom was a lawyer. He even threatens McCluskey that he would have to show cause in a court of law. no one except Michael thought that they could kill a policeman. So whatever Vito's private justice system was, he or his men weren't ready to handle McCluskey outside the court. It was unprecedented, until Michael comes up with his bold plan. A quick, necessary tactical move by Tom. He needed to make sure that Vito was guarded by trusted men. I doubt that using the court system was ever in the Corleone's plans to deal with McCluskey in the long run. Tom MAY have been thinking along those lines but as Turnbull pointed out, there was a much more immediate concern for Vito's safety. Once that was assured dealing with McCluskey could be dealt with later.
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Re: Couldn't MIchael have sued McCluskey?
[Re: Danito]
#532165
02/19/09 11:09 PM
02/19/09 11:09 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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In Lilo's and Danito's most recent posts, we find the essence of the Corleones' relationship to the "justice" system:
Vito was sophisticated enough to understand that "a lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a thousand men with guns." His legitimate facade--his ability to accomplish things that benefited him and the people who needed him--came from manipulating the politico/judiciary system and exploiting the weaknesses and greed of judges, politicians and cops. A man who could deliver things to constituents "through the system" would wield awesome power and assume mythic proportions.
At the same time, as SC noted, the Corleones would never use the same system to achieve "justice" for themselves in urgent, personal and life-threatening matters. Why should they, when they had other means at their disposal. In fact, a great deal of their strength rested on the fear factor: their ability to go beyond the system and use violence to achieve quick, definitive solutions. The combination was what made them strong.
Connie's wedding provides us with splendid examples of both sides. Nazorine wants Vito's "legitimate" political clout to keep his future son in law in America. Bonasera, after trying and failing to get justice through the courts, wants Vito's violence. Bravo!
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Couldn't MIchael have sued McCluskey?
[Re: Turnbull]
#532187
02/20/09 10:05 AM
02/20/09 10:05 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
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Vito was smart enough to change with the times. As his reach become longer - beyond one neighborhood - he needed to use the "legitimate" system to reinforce his power. Certainly, he couldn't bribe the entire law enforcement/judicial system, so he worked within the system as well as outside of it.
The Corleones used whatever means were most apt to achieve their goals. In the scene outside the hospital, they were outmanned and outgunned. Tom, realizing this, uses the threat of judicial review of McCluskey's actions to ensure that Vito was protected. No amount of buttonmen would have accomplished that.
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: Couldn't MIchael have sued McCluskey?
[Re: SC]
#532203
02/20/09 03:47 PM
02/20/09 03:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Also the Corleones don't seek justice through the judicial system. That's it in a nutshell. Bonasera sues. Vito and sons don't. Vito was sophisticated enough to understand that "a lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a thousand men with guns." His legitimate facade--his ability to accomplish things that benefited him and the people who needed him--came from manipulating the politico/judiciary system and exploiting the weaknesses and greed of judges, politicians and cops. A man who could deliver things to constituents "through the system" would wield awesome power and assume mythic proportions.
At the same time, as SC noted, the Corleones would never use the same system to achieve "justice" for themselves in urgent, personal and life-threatening matters. Why should they, when they had other means at their disposal. In fact, a great deal of their strength rested on the fear factor: their ability to go beyond the system and use violence to achieve quick, definitive solutions. The combination was what made them strong. Connie's wedding provides us with splendid examples of both sides. Nazorine wants Vito's "legitimate" political clout to keep his future son in law in America. Bonasera, after trying and failing to get justice through the courts, wants Vito's violence. Bravo! Exactly! : BONASERA: "I went to the police, like a good American."VITO CORLEONE: "Why did you go to the police? Why didn't you come to me first? Had you come to me in friendship, then this scum that ruined your daughter would be suffering this very day. And that by chance if an honest man such as yourself should make enemies, then they would become my enemies. And then they would fear you."VITO CORLEONE (to Tom ) : "Ah, give this to ah, Clemenza. I want reliable people; people that aren't gonna be carried away." ---------------------------------------------------- NAZORINE : "Well now that the war is over, this boy, Enzo -- they want to repatriate him back to Italy. Godfather, I have a daughter. You see, she and Enzo... "VITO CORLEONE: "You want Enzo to stay in this country, and you want your daughter to be married." TOM : "Who should I give this job to?" VITO CORLEONE: "Not to our paisan. Give it to a Jew congressman, in another district." ________________________________________________ As Turnbull pointed out above, Vito knew exactly what and who to use depending on what the situation was. A violent situation and a legal situation. Both handled by Vito accordingly.
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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