Maybe one of our constitutional/governmental scholars could explain this.

I was watching a documentary on the History Channel about the UFO Files maintained by the U.S. government. Kind of interesting stuff. The show delved into the various presidencies of the last half of the 20th century.

Apparently Jimmy Carter is a believer (of UFOs) and he requested the "file" from the CIA. The then director, George HW Bush, refused him the file, saying that access to it was on a need-to-know basis and that the curiosity of the president didn't fit that need.

Why couldn't Carter just say, "Fuck you, George, give me the damned file"?? How could an underling tell the top executive officer of the government that he is not allowed to see some government file?

Any ideas?

While I am not a constitutional or government scholar by any means, I believe that if Carter wanted to persue the matter any further, he would have had to get congressional approval to demand that the CIA turn over those files.


As you already know our government is set up with a system of checks and balances so as not to allow one position in government or one branch of government more power than another. So I believe that in a case like this the President would have needed to act under the authorization of Congress in order to maximize his authority.

I'm no con-law expert either, but the president does nominate directors for the CIA & FBI. Presidents have asked these directors for resignations in the past, no?

The National Security Act of 1947 governs the collection and dissemination of intelligence information. It has been amended over the years and presidents have issued a few Executive Orders regarding its implementation. Briefly, the House and the Senate both have select intelligence committees that are given access to such information. The Act allows the Director of Intelligence to otherwise designate who has access. The President and Vice-President are exempt from such designation.

Presient Nixon fired Attorney General Elliot Richardson and William Ruckleshaus for failing to fire Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox. As the Nation's Chief Executive, unless otherwise constrained by law, a President could fire the DCI for refusal to provide him with certain classified information. Nixon eventually got Solicitor General Robert Bork to fire Cox; a President could eventually find someone in the chain of command to give him the info he requested.

Yes.

But after President Nixon's term in office (or should I say resigntion) Congress established a joint committee to supervise CIA operations which tightened congressional control over the CIA. This was done because congress discovered that the the CIA had illegally broken into the homes, tapped the phones and opened the mail of American citizens and accumulated information which had been passed on and used by presidents for political purposes.

It's interesting that intelligence agency oversight was almost exclusively an Executive Branch function until the mid-70s. The formation of the Church Committee in the Senate and the Pike Committee in the House were prompted by media reports to look into CIA operations. As a result, the House and Senate each created their own select committees on intelligence. Now the House is considering a change to its rules to provide for the inclusion of some House intelligence committee members on the House Appropriations Committee in order to exert more control over CIA activities. However, it's not clear if such control would also extend to the DIA and other federal intelligence agencies. There are a ton of them and one would think that they could combine their operations. But turf is important in any organization and the feds are no different.

I don't know anything about how this stuff works, but I sure want to see the UFO Files! That alone would make me want to be the CIA Director instead of President of the US.

Neither am I and I agree that Carter would've needed approval from Congress. Probably could've gotten it too, had he pursued it enough but I'm guessing he was advised not to for fear it would compromise his credibility with the American public.

Not that he needed a UFO inquiry to accomplish that...

Apple

No, the President has not needed and does not need Congressional approval to examine CIA files. The National Security Act establishing the CIA specifically exempts the President and Vice-President from constraints placed on dissemination of classified information. The rules regarding such dissemination were established during the Truman Administration and have remained, essentially, intact since. As the proprietor of intelligence information, the DCI implements the rules regarding dissemination. Although the DCI could resist turning over the info to the President, such refusal would be frought with career and political problems.

Thanks, olivant.

So somewhere in your very interesting posts is there an answer to SC's question other than that President Carter could've eventually obtained the file but for reasons of his own apparently chose not to pursue?

Apple

maybe the files were empty, which is why he must have refused to show it to the president

That answer does it for me. I'd assume that Carter figured that if he'd gotten into a hassle with his CIA director over UFO files, there'd be a sensational (and uncontrollable) public demand to learn what was in the files--and a lot of ridicule of Carter for sticking his nose in ("Uh, Jimmy, after your encounter with the attack rabbit, you're now seeing flying saucers?").

This kind of stuff (separation of the branches of government and who would "win" in a battle when push comes to shove) fascinates me.

Carter was the only president who publicly admitted some UFO sighting (but the show pointed out that other presidents either "saw" them or had expressed interest in them) and I'm not sure what politics/personality things came into the decision by GHWB not to share the info with Carter. It's noteworthy to see the apparent hostility between the two whenever they get together (i.e. at Obama's inauguration).

Anyway, I found the two-hour show (on The History Channel) VERY entertaining and informative, and I'd recommend it to anyone with an interest in either UFOs or the chain of command in this country. It was simply called "The UFO Files", so check your listings.

There is also apparent 'hostility' between Carter & Clinton, which was also noted most recently at Obama's inauguration.

With regard to Bush 41, I had heard him refer during an Imus interview (a few weeks prior to Inaugural) to Carter's many negative comments about G.W. Bush which he he noted was not the best way to get on his good side. A father will stand by his son, no matter what age, no matter what profession.

I hear Carter & Gerald Ford eventually became good friends, and he did give Ford's eulogy so I suppose it's nice that Carter didn't manage to alienate EVERY one of his contemporaries.

Apple

I read a very interesting book last year, "Write it when I'm gone : remarkable off-the-record conversations with Gerald R. Ford," by a journalist who covered Ford as President and stayed friendly with him afterward. One of the things Ford said about Clinton was that every time he was with Clinton and a woman or women were present, Clinton could not keep his eyes off them, and became distracted. This was during and after Clinton's presidency.

Apparently Carter has managed to alienate many colleagues. I read that Ted Kennedy couldn't stand him. Apparently Reagan didn't like him nor did Clinton or either of the Bushes.
He did have a close friendship with Gerald Ford after he left office, but that was it. Before Ted Kenney's funeral I noticed Hillary Clinton was seated next to George W. Bush, and they were carrying on like they were best friends. Evidently Nancy Reagan has been very supportive of Obama because of his views on stem cell research. I would think anyone who has been president or first lady would be extremely respectful of his or her living counterparts because no one can know what it is like except the few who have been in that spot.

Aside from being the most ineffective President since Wold War II, Jimmy Carter's often blatant anti-semitism has cost him the lion's share of his political supporters.

Here's what Carter had to say as recently as last June: “In my opinion, Netanyahu (Israeli Prime Minister) brought up several obstacles to peace in his speech that others before him have not placed. He insists on settlement expansion and demands that the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state, even though 20% of Israel’s citizens are not Jewish.”

So in Carter's tiny little world, it's Israel's desire to be recognized as a Jewish state that's the true obstacle to peace in the middle east, not the Arab's refusal to accept it.

As a President he was a pinhead. As an elder statesman and American diplomat he's downright dangerous.

Didn't mean to hijack this thread, but Carter drives me batty.