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Re: Apollonia
[Re: Danito]
#558849
10/28/09 09:11 AM
10/28/09 09:11 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
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The other bodyguard Calo became the leader of the Sicilian crew of the Corleone family. Is that really what we are supposed to believe? I mean, Calo appears a little dumb. For example when he just repeats what Fabrizio tells ("more Greek than Italian"). If I recall correctly, the novel describes Calo as being little more than an aminal, intellectually. Hardly leadership material. Also, GFIII makes clear that he works for Don Thomassino. "My master is dead. Blood calls for blood."
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: Apollonia
[Re: Danito]
#558851
10/28/09 09:50 AM
10/28/09 09:50 AM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 372 CA
DiMaggio68
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 372
CA
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The other bodyguard Calo became the leader of the Sicilian crew of the Corleone family. Is that really what we are supposed to believe? I mean, Calo appears a little dumb. For example when he just repeats what Fabrizio tells ("more Greek than Italian"). You could be right, but I thought he was a caporegime because the way he conducted himself when Don Tommosino (old man in wheelchair) was murdered by the guy trying to look like a priest in GF3. He acted like a leader when talking to Michael after interupting his dinner with Kay. I thought he took over the leadership after the murder.
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Re: Apollonia
[Re: DiMaggio68]
#558886
10/28/09 03:30 PM
10/28/09 03:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27 Florida
Yurkin
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27
Florida
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I think she would have been a lot better for Michael then Kay ever was. Apollonia was his true love. I agree 100%. Kay wasnt Italian. Let alone, Sicilian. She never left anything alone. Apollonia wouldve been a better suit for him. Just like Carmella (Momma Corleone) was for Vito. Plus, she was prettier!  lol
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Re: Apollonia
[Re: dontomasso]
#559003
10/30/09 12:28 AM
10/30/09 12:28 AM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 372 CA
DiMaggio68
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 372
CA
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Calo did get smarter in GFIII than he seemed to be in GFII. He always worked for Don Tomassino. Michael went to Sicily under Tomassino's protection, who in turn paid for his bodyguards.
As for Appollonia, there i no question she would have been better for Mike than Kay who did nothing but whine about Michael's business (but didn't mind the lifestyle it brought), and tell him what an a**hole he was. Appollonia would have understood Michael, and perhaps through that she may have had the ability to influence him in a way that would have prevented him from becomeing the total paranoid he wa by the end of GFII. So Calo had his own mafia family? Yeah, Kay sure gave Mike a bad time. She could be a real bruta. That is for sure.
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Re: Apollonia
[Re: Lilo]
#559036
10/30/09 01:33 PM
10/30/09 01:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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But Michael "lurved" Kay. He convinced her to take those night time college classes. And Michael got over Appolonia quickly because it was nothing a few megavitamins couldn't cure. Nice Annie Hall reference there....  Anyway, the obvious comparison of Michael's wives is such a crucial element of the story. Of course Appolonia would've made a better 'Mafia' wife (I love the passage in the novel describing her first weeks/months of married life). But the initial relationship and eventual marriage to Kay is needed to emphasize the transition between the once rebellous Michael who wanted nothing to do with his father's 'Business'...and the hardened Don we came to know & love. While we are not supposed to be nuts about Annie-er, I mean Kay, she is really the conscience of the story... Apple
Last edited by AppleOnYa; 10/30/09 01:35 PM.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Apollonia
[Re: DiMaggio68]
#559114
11/01/09 03:13 PM
11/01/09 03:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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I believe that Michael really did love Kay before the Sol/Mac shootings--there's a nice deleted scene of them cavorting playfully in a hotel room that shows real affection. But there's no doubt: Apollonia truly hit him with the "thunderbolt," and it was love at first sight. I think part of Michael's fall for Apollonia was his embrace of his Sicilian heritage after he became part of the family by rescuing Vito at the hospital and whacking Sol and Mac. The traditional Sicilian courtship and wedding shows it.
His wooing of Kay after he returned to the US struck me as cold and businesslike--as if he were adding another possession to his portfolio of "legitimacy." Kay's WASP credentials, values and manners were, to Michael, a certified sign of "legitimacy." (In the novel, Michael's disappointed that Kay took instructions in the Church and raised the kids as Catholics--he preferred them to be Protestants because it was more "American.") I believe he loved Kay in his way, but the loss of Apollonia withdrew a lot of his emotional capital.
This raises another question: In III, just before Calo tells him that Don Tomassino's dead, he begs Kay to "forgive" him. Do you think that was his only motivation? Or do you think he wanted Kay to remarry him to cement his "legitimacy"?
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Apollonia
[Re: Turnbull]
#559262
11/03/09 04:04 PM
11/03/09 04:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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His wooing of Kay after he returned to the US struck me as cold and businesslike--as if he were adding another possession to his portfolio of "legitimacy." Kay's WASP credentials, values and manners were, to Michael, a certified sign of "legitimacy." (In the novel, Michael's disappointed that Kay took instructions in the Church and raised the kids as Catholics--he preferred them to be Protestants because it was more "American.") I believe he loved Kay in his way, but the loss of Apollonia withdrew a lot of his emotional capital.
This raises another question: In III, just before Calo tells him that Don Tomassino's dead, he begs Kay to "forgive" him. Do you think that was his only motivation? Or do you think he wanted Kay to remarry him to cement his "legitimacy"? I agree with the idea that when he proposed to Kay it was more businesslike. Michael had no social life, and she was the logical choice. I am sure Vito told him it was time for him to start a family and that he would no longer object to his marrying that American he brought to the wedding. I think Mike was in love with the idea of Kay and the veneer of legitimacy she brought to the table, but not Kay herself. Look how he treated her when she tried to see her children in Tahoe. That is not love. I also think in Sicily he wanted her forgiveness and her declaration of love as a vindication (they deleted a love making scene from the movie) and nothing more. I think he accepted that she was married to someone else, and no I do not think he would whack Douglas to get Kay back. BTW has anyone ever done a Kay or Apollonia poll (like Mary Anne or Ginger) ?
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Apollonia
[Re: dontomasso]
#559290
11/03/09 08:34 PM
11/03/09 08:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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...I think Mike was in love with the idea of Kay and the veneer of legitimacy she brought to the table, but not Kay herself. Look how he treated her when she tried to see her children in Tahoe. That is not love. Michael did love Kay, in the best way that he could after what had happened in Sicily. But that is only because of the relationship they already shared. Had Michael not known Kay prior to Appolonia, then he would probably never have been able to meet someone new. He lover her, that is, until she told him that she had aborted his child. Why would he feel any love for her after that? By the time of that visit with the children, she was lucky to have been allowed in his house. Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Apollonia
[Re: AppleOnYa]
#559293
11/03/09 08:46 PM
11/03/09 08:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066 OH, VA, KY
Mignon
Mama Mig
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Mama Mig

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
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He lover her, that is, until she told him that she had aborted his child. Why would he feel any love for her after that? By the time of that visit with the children, she was lucky to have been allowed in his house. Apple He did slam the door in her face.
Dylan Matthew Moran born 10/30/12
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Re: Apollonia
[Re: Danito]
#559367
11/04/09 02:19 PM
11/04/09 02:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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In part, possibly (what little love was left). Mostly a meltdown at the tables having been so drastically turned. Kay wasn't quite that upset when announcing to Michael that she & the children was about to leave him.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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