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Re: Gitmo Inmates on the move to Illinois
[Re: BAM_233]
#560386
11/16/09 11:34 AM
11/16/09 11:34 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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That's where Noriega is. Evidently that prison goes several storeys undergriound. They wont bust out, and if they do, the people in Illinois may have certain less humane ideas about how to treat them.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Gitmo Inmates on the move to Illinois
[Re: dontomasso]
#560399
11/16/09 12:12 PM
11/16/09 12:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984 California
The Italian Stallionette
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
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Isn't the first WTC bomber in a U.S. jail? I always thought Alcatraz would be a good isolated place. Of course,that's been closed for years. All and all I am not fearful should they move them to a prison here in the U.S. TIS
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK
"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon
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Re: Gitmo Inmates on the move to Illinois
[Re: Mignon]
#560431
11/16/09 03:23 PM
11/16/09 03:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984 California
The Italian Stallionette
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
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DT or Kly, Re 911 terrorist mastermind, Kalib Shaek Mohammud, (I know I messed up the spelling)trial to be in NYC. I've heard commentators and experts claim that the defense would request to move the trial to another venue do to prejudice. That would seem logical (from the defense perspective). Do you think they will move it? How likely? Just wondering. TIS
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK
"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon
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Re: Gitmo Inmates on the move to Illinois
[Re: Mignon]
#560434
11/16/09 03:40 PM
11/16/09 03:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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I'd like to know how the NYC locals feel about it. I just posted about that in the Obama thread, Mig. I don't want it here.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Gitmo Inmates on the move to Illinois
[Re: Mignon]
#560435
11/16/09 03:42 PM
11/16/09 03:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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I'd like to know how the NYC locals feel about it. Probably split. Some are afraid of some kind of attack, which IMHO is why we have to show the world we are NOT AFRAID to try these people and ask for the death penalty and have a jury decide. If it works, it is a victory for the American Way of Justice. As for a change of venue, where do they suggest? Alabama? BTW in the unlikely event one of them tries to escape, where would he go? I am sure there are more than a few neighborhoods in NY where the locals would be more than happy to "take care of" the escape.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Gitmo Inmates on the move to Illinois
[Re: olivant]
#560472
11/16/09 09:45 PM
11/16/09 09:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Article III, Section 2 of the Constitution states that crimes are to be tried in the state where the offense was committed. So,if not tried in New York City, then in New York State unless a motion is granted for a change of venue. So if not New York State, then in the District of Columbia. Or even better, in a military tribunal out on a Naval ship in the middle of the ocean. Let's not forget that the attacks of September 11 were comprised of a series of criminal acts prohibited by not only U.S. domestic law, but also international law and the law of war. Those attacks took place in both New York City, against civilian targets and in The District of Columbia against both civilian and military targets. The hijacking of those planes not only violated hijacking laws, but the people on those planes were being held against their will....which translates into being taken hostage. I believe that because of the nature of these attacks, those accused of being responsible for coordinating and planning these acts of terrorism should be put in front of a military tribunal and judged accordingly. However, with that being said, being that it has been decided that they will not stand trial in front of a military tribunal, then they should be judged by those that live in NYC AND in the District of Columbia. ("crimes are to be tried in the state where the offense was committed.") They should be put on trial in NYC, and after that trial is done, then put on trial in the District of Columbia. They should have to face two trials. Just like the way it was done with the DC Sniper.
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Gitmo Inmates on the move to Illinois
[Re: Don Cardi]
#560474
11/16/09 10:01 PM
11/16/09 10:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984 California
The Italian Stallionette
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
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Thanks for clarifying with Article III, Section 2 DC. It does make perfect sense that this trial MUST be in the state of NY. The reason I ask about a change in venue is because I've heard several experts (Jonathan Turley, law professor for one)say that the defense will most likely immediately try for this change. I was just wondering how likely it would be that the judge will grant it. TIS
"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK
"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon
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Re: Gitmo Inmates on the move to Illinois
[Re: klydon1]
#560529
11/17/09 12:29 PM
11/17/09 12:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325 MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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A change in venue is in order if holding the trial in the venue of the corpus or crime results in undue prejudice to the defendant. The law also allows for a change of venire, which means selecting a jury from another district and bringing them to the venue. Kly, that decision about undue prejudice is up solely to the judge, is that correct? But the case must be tried somewhere, yes? In cases like this where there is a lot of pre-trial interest and passion across the US, would a defense attorney be more inclined to fight for change of venue or spend his/her energy on other strategies? Thx!
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Gitmo Inmates on the move to Illinois
[Re: Lilo]
#560530
11/17/09 12:45 PM
11/17/09 12:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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A change in venue is in order if holding the trial in the venue of the corpus or crime results in undue prejudice to the defendant. The law also allows for a change of venire, which means selecting a jury from another district and bringing them to the venue. Kly, that decision about undue prejudice is up solely to the judge, is that correct? But the case must be tried somewhere, yes? In cases like this where there is a lot of pre-trial interest and passion across the US, would a defense attorney be more inclined to fight for change of venue or spend his/her energy on other strategies? Thx! Yes. The judge has discretion to determine whether a change of venue is in order. The standard he uses isn't merely based on pretrial publicity by itself, but whether the publicity has a realistic possibility of prejudicing a jury prior to the introduction of evidence. Then a balancing of the interests of holding the trial in the venue vs. the possible extent of a polluted jury pool. I personally don't think it would be fair to select NYC residents as jurors for this trial as the extent of the attack was so pervasive that it affected many people there. They have lived through the atrocity firsthand. Media coverage, daily conversation and eye witnessing (even days/weeks/months after the attack) would be naturally more impassioned in NYC. Now a juror is not necessarily disqualified from service by having knowledge of the crime, for which the trial is held. A juror can qualify if he/she can demonstrate that a decision can be reached, based only on the evidence presented and the reasonable inferences drawn therefrom.
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