Ahh -- wrong number --!

Whilst I acknowledge Michael and Roth were playing their cat and mouse games, among others -

• neither Michael nor Roth thought the other will get out of Havana alive
• Roth gave his blessings to Michael pushing Klingman out because “Oh, Michael? Won't see him no more” [Tahoe shooting]

I believe, Michael showed his hand [without cause!] earlier on - Red flag that would have alerted Roth [if Roth was fooled prior] when Michael didn't have Pentangeli killed as he stated to Roth in Miami “Then Pentangeli is a dead man, you don't object”

Besides “sending Frankie to meet with the Rosato brothers” didn't advance his quest any further in finding out the traitor in the family
It ended up giving more ammunition to Roth eg: Senate hearing whereas if Michael had waited until his return from Havana – there was enough time! - then Michael's New York operation remains untouched and no Senate hearing either

Surely Roth is not going to tell Michael their Havana deal is off because Pentangeli is still alive?

Turnbull is a good man! My take "Frankie's loyalty" was beyond reproach

IMHO the major difference is that Michael sending Pentangeli to a sitdown with the Rosatos was actually believable. But I always found it incredibly stupid that Vito would have sent Luca to act like he was unhappy with the family, given that everyone in the underworld would have known how loyal Luca Brasi was to Don Corleone. Even with the pretext of wanting a piece of the drug money and going behind Vito's back, thinking that enemies who might be planning a hit would accept that Luca wasn't happy is stupid, since even if he WAS unhappy, what would happen the moment Sollozzo's goons killed Vito? Luca would be after them. Ridiculous.

Pentangeli could/did have the impression that he might not like the Rosatos but "the boss" was making him play nice. That's way more believable given the circumstances and probably would have worked. But I do agree that Pentangeli was expendable.

I started a thread on that subject a while back:

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=444618&Searchpage=1&Main=16277&Words=%2Bsilver+%2Bplatter&Search=true#Post444618

My take, whilst on the surface! Vito sending Luca to Tattaglia is "ridiculous" and “incredibly stupid” than Michael sending Pentangeli to the Rosatos, neither is believable

Michael gave Pentangeli a pass after Pentangeli 'arranged' for his Don's bedroom - where his wife sleeps, where his children come and play with their toys, in his home! - machine gun sprayed....

I believe Pentangeli was too valuable to Michael to be expendable

Extracts
Did they have to die?

Rocco linked to Michael

No doubt Pentangeli was too valuable to Michael to be expendable also Every member is pivotal link in the chain and Michael would not sacrifice any of his men

Both erred, tipped their hand sending their trusted most valued friends and ended up losing them

Poor Pentangeli was stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place indeed

Whilst Pentangeli should have had more faith in his Don irrespective.... Michael certainly hung Pentangeli out to dry - among others

• Pentangeli, a good old man who was loyal to Vito for years [and Michael] - who had come all the way from New York was kept waiting in the lobby to get an audience with Michael
• getting little or no help / support from Michael in his troubles with the Rosato brothers
• then Michael sends Pentangeli over to the Rosatos, to lay down to them and to settle these troubles with them
• Michael didn't bother to take care of Pentangeli's family after Pentangeli was 'killed' doing an unreasonable assignment for Michael, with Pentangeli's enemies who “spit right in his face”

If Michael sent him into the lion's den, it was Pentangeli who put his head in it's mouth, leaving Cicci to wait in the car even after the C-Note insult

If only Pentangeli had Michael's brain!
Pentangeli: I trust this man with my life If I were to ask him to wait in the car, it would be an insult

Would we equate the C-Note with Ola's orange to Michael

I never understand either

• Orange

Didn't Michael know oranges foreshadow death....

• C-note

Did the Rosatos try to kill Pentangeli because Pentangeli didn't appreciate their gesture of Goodwill....

"Did the Rosatos try to kill Pentangeli because Pentangeli didn't appreciate their gesture of Goodwill?."

No. Their purpose was to kill Pentangeli:

Michael's last words to Roth in Miami were: :Frank Pentangeli is a dead man-you don't object?" Roth was the Rosatos' advocate with Michael, so he probably contacted them and said, "You heard about the shooting at Michael Corleone's place in Tahoe? Well, he knows Pentangeli was behind it. He told me that 'Frank Pentangeli is a dead man.'" He wouldn't have to "order" the Rosatos to whack Pentangeli--they'd see Roth's information as a green light to kill Pentangeli and not only to get their three territories in the Bronx, but also to take all of the Corleones' operation in NYC, too. Carpe diem. Roth also wouldn't have had to tell the Rosatos about his plan to have Michael killed in Havana--it had nothing to do with them.

Whether they sensed it or not, the Rosatos were part of Roth's grand plan: Inform them that they had the opportunity to take over Michael's "muscle" in NYC just before he had Michael killed in Havana. That way, the Corleone heirs would have no means to take revenge on him--a complete fait accompli. And, with Fredo's coglioni in his pocket, Roth would always have a hostage in whatever remained of the Corleone empire.

I think it could be Lana's Tongue-in Cheek!

We'd had some entertaining debates recently regarding Roth's hits and misses in threads
1. Pentangeli Meeting with Rosarto Brothers
2. Why the Tahoe assassins?

I reckon as soon as Roth learned that Pentangeli is a dead man, set up a meeting with the Rosato brothers -- says he's gonna go for their deal, he would have figured, Michael knew Pentangeli was not behind the shooting

As we'd discussed, Michael's killing in Havana is fraught with problems as to why he was the only one

They still had Corleone people like Neri, Rocco, their own men and means Hence there was plenty they could do, to take revenge

Roth the hunted one! He missed his chance.

Hmm... and what are to presume happened to the Rossatos after the "botched" hit on Frankie?

They were "on the run," according to Tom Hagen.

Sure thing It is a given Michael would have wiped out all his enemies they be Fabrizio, Cicci, Rosato brothers
They all would have had to answer for these troubles they caused for the Corleones

Me neither!

This maybe of interest
"A lucky C note for our new deal"

If they were always going to kill him, why the C-Note insult and Michael Corleone says Hello