I friggen hate Fredo so much more now. After what he did to Michael, that son of b**** still manages to hide valuable information during the senate hearings and whines about shit after he almost gets Michael & his wife killed.

"Thats all I can tell you for now"....10 mins later..."Quesdat belongs to Roth"..HOLY I JUST BLEW UP WHEN I SAW THAT SCENE AGAIN!!

Another issue:

Kay bugs the crap out of me. Whatever happen to loyalty in relationships? A wife is suppose to stand by her husband no matter how difficult the times are. She may not agree with Micahels way of living...but its still a living. The situation could be 10 times worse. Michale could've been a drug dealer, a cheater, an alcoholic and a abusive husband. I don't blame Micheal for how cold he is or the descions he's made. Ever since Sonny died I would be in a full rage forever.

Hi Tril,

Relax, its only a movie. Glad to see you are deeply involved. You may have many more insightful observations to share.

BTW, you posted b****, but spelled out shit. Just curious.

Welcome and enjoy the boards. There is a wealth of GF info here.

Hi! Sorry didn't mean to sound so dramatic haha...I just have some people in my life that share similiar actions like Fredo. I meant to say "son of a bitch" but i didn;t know we could post swears.

Thanks for the warm welcoming!

Have to say I agree w/ you on Fredo, while appearing sympathetic on the surface he was despicable throughout GFII.

Kay, however deserves just a bit of slack. Over the years the proclomations she heard from Michael went from: "That's my family Kay, that's not me." - to - "I mean in 5 years the Corleone Family will be completely legitimate." - to - "I'm trying..." Althoug Michael's sincerety on the first statement is unquestionable, it's clear why Kay would become gradually more & more frustrated & disgusted, especially with 2 children (soon to be 3) now in the picture. By the time she was ready to leave him, Michael was a differen man than the one she loved. And unless he ended the business deal Vito had made in order to end the 'war' after Sonny's death...Michael actually WAS a drug dealer. Among other things...

And after she left him and into GF3 she became a hard-hearted woman with Michael. He was almost pathetically apologetic in GF3 (given the script) and she had that look of despise....not the same whimpering look as in GF2 when Michael closed the door in her face when she came to visit the kids.

I didn't get that scene. How was that information useful to Michael when he was being grilled by the Senate? Did Michael use that information at all?

He would probably have used it as an appeal if he would have been convicted.

Tom had just told Michael that Roth had set this up real good with Michael subject to several perjury counts. Michael needed all the info he could get.

Goes to show you what an outstanding actor John Cazale really was.

In GFI he makes you feel sorry for his character. In GFII he makes you dislike his character for most of the movie and then, in the scenes leading up to his demise, he makes you begin to feel sorry for the character once again.

Great acting by a great actor.

John Cazale was truly something else. The way Meryl Streep treated him should never be forgiven.

In the scene where Frankie is nearly strangled, the Rosatos are trying to stuff Frankie into a phone booth. Why? They start trying to do so well before the policeman enters the bar. So, they weren't rying to hide him from the policeman, right? What were they trying to do?

oli, it is believed that the scene, following a real life event, was meant to suggest that the Rosattos were dragging Pentangeli to the phone to force him to speak to his Family and get them to pay a ransom demand. (This was alleged to have happened to Larry Gallo of "The Gallo Brothers" fame).

i just re-watched the michael/fredo scene where michael questions him about things, in the acting of John Cazale itis very apparent that Fredo is jealous,angry, and if everything went as planned, he would "maybe" get his own part of the family to run (so was his hopes at least), paying closer attention to the passion in his(Fredo's) face, made me realize that there was purposeful ill intent on Fredo's part to try and at least get his brother "out of power"

In my own way I kind of felt sorry for Fredo. Think about it, he couldn't save his Father from being shot by Sollozo's Men which damaged his credibility within the Family. I'm sure that The Don saw alot of himself when he couldn't rescue his mother from Don Ciccio's Men.

Also, he never had the same status that Sonny and Tom had, and keep in mind how humiliated he must have felt when Michael came to Las Vegas the first time. Now he meant well, but he had noright to put on a Party with Those Showgirls, after all Michael was faithful to Kay, he wasn't Sonny or even Tom. Also, could someone please tell me why Fredo didn't know that Michael was the official head of The Family and that Tom was no longer the Consigliere?

Another thing too was that if you looked in The Deleted Scenes with his Wife Deanna (What did she do anyhow?), she jeered him for being scared of his Little Brother which is quite humiliating.

When he tried to make Michael understand that he did what he did was because he wanted to be "On His Own" Michael should have said to him. "If you wanted that, why didn't you come to me in the first place?" Also, don't you notice that near the end where Tom goes into the Study to meet with Michael, Al, & Rocco, Fredo is going over Fishing instead of meeting with the fellows.

Dear God, did this man have any legtimate employment?

As do many of us. Doesn't excuse what he did.




Probably because Fredo was sheltered in Vegas learning the Casino business and no one saw a need to inform him of this type of Family Business. And...we really don't know that he HADN'T been informed of the changes and was going over Michael's head in a moment of desperation to keep Moe from leaving in a huff.



What would be the point of that since they both knew Michael would NEVER have given Fredo more prominence even if he had asked. It had been decided years earlier (and not by Michael) that Fredo was incapable of handling any important Business. And anyway...Fredo's main beef was that he was working FOR his younger brother, something that would never be changed.

The answer Michael gave, which was 'I've always taken care of you Fredo...' was quite appropriate.



After what he had done, why would Fredo be permitted to be involved in ANY meeting involving ANY family business? At that point he was lucky to even be allowed in Michael's home (completely unaware of course that his days were now numbered).

I'm not sure Fredo ever got over watching Vito gunned down in New York. It doesn't excuse what he did to Michael, whether he knew it was an actual hit rather than a simple monetary coup, but I think he was even more addled in the head after that.

I'm not fond of Kay in the second movie myself, but I can see how she'd gotten to the point where enough was enough for her. Even had she not left when she did, she knew enough of Michael to be able to justify leaving him after Fredo's murder. The changes in Michael were necessary for the position he was placed in, but those changes slowly made him more and more unrecognizable to Kay. She might not have had the right to try to take his kids away from him or have that abortion (in Michael's mind), but she had every right to leave him.

What really amused me was that everything taking place during the "present" was all because of that weasel Moe Greene.