As one of the most interesting side characters, I always wondered what his exact position was in the Corleone organization after Michael moed to Nevada.

In GF2, we see him at the side of Pentangeli, acting as some sort of a right-hand man. He even went with Pentangeli to Anthony's communion party and was present at the private meeting with Michael Corleone.

According to the chart at the senate hearings, Pentangeli is listed as a "caporegime" while Cicci is listed as a "soldier".

However, my interpretation is that Pentangeli was actually Michael's defacto underboss in New York, succeeding Clemenza.

The most interesting info concerning Cicci's position around 1958 comes from the conversation between the senator and him at the heargings.

-----

CHAIRMAN

Mr. CICCI, from the year 1942 to the present time -- you were an employ of the GENCO Olive Oil Company?

CUT TO: The Senate committee room. WILLIE CICCI is sitting smoking. Next to him is his lawyer.

CICCI

That's right.

CHAIRMAN

But in actuality you were a member of the Corleone crime organization.

CICCI.

No -- uh -- no -- we called it the Corleone family SENATOR -- we called it the family.

CHAIRMAN

What was your position.?

CICCI

Well at first like everyone else I, I was a soldier.

-----

He says "at first" he was a soldier which implies he actually was by 1958 some sort of a caporegime.

Any thoughts?

Okay. Except for the FBI chart at the Senate hearing, there is no mention of a Corleone underboss in either the novel or the films. Neither Clemenza or Pentangeli was an underboss. When Michael moved to Nevada, he was still the don. However, both Clemenza and Pentangeli were dons also of the Corleone family in NY. In fact, Pentangeli tells Mike that he wants to run his family without you on my back. Of course, Mike retorts that his family is still called Corleone. There are analogous situations in busines where the founder of a company owns plenty of that company's stock and exercises considerable influence, but the company is run by a president or CEO. Also, it's similar to the role of Sam Giancana (and a succession of others) in Chicago in relation to Tony Accardo who, though seemingly retired, was the power behind the throne for a very long time.

Cicci was probably Frankie's most reliable button man to whom he gave alot of latitude to run the NY family's street action without giving him a formal title.

Although Michael was the ultimate and sole boss as he made clear to Frankie, I think with Michael's move to Nevada and interest in the more lucrative and white-collar businesses/crimes, Frankie is effectively the boss of the NY Corleone group.

I think everyone who needs to know , knows that Frankie answers to Michael. I thought of Cicci either as a "special" or a capo by that point. As one of the people who took care of some very sensitive tasks during the Corleone "restoration" as it were I think he would have risen in authority.

Sure. Cicci may have very well been a capo.

You guys are probably right about Pentangeli actually being the boss in New York.

But like Lilo says, everyone knows that Michael was in fact still the one pulling the strings.

So that's why I said my 'interpretation' of this is that Pentangeli was defacto Michael's underboss.

His official title was that he was a caporegime. I don't think it was FFC's intention to let us think the chart was just assumed by the FBI. I don't think it's that complicated. That chart was made for us as viewers to understand the Corleone hierarchy, and ofcourse to give a sense of authenticity regarding that scene.

Just an aside:
Cicci is a very minor character in GF and II. But Joe Spinell was so perfect in that role that Cicci gets disproportionately large attention on this board. A tribute to brilliant casting.

I think Cicci had some kind of minor position with Clemenza, and when Frankie took over, Cicci moved up to something like an underboss.

We know Cicci started out as a "button," and most likely Clemenza and then later Frankie were his buffas.

would have been great if he was in part III...a great actor

You can see him in the scenes where the body guards wait for Sonny to satisfy Lucy. And later he's pushing away some by standers while Sonny dances with Carlo on the street. This tells me Cicci was one of Sonny's button men in GF.

We see him also frisking Tessio. Whose button men had the task to kill Tessio? Clemenza's? Considering the old friendship between the two, I can't believe that. So he might be one of the men of the regime Rocco had been secretely building up. And I guess he used some of Sonny's men.

But when Rocco moved to Nevada, Cicci stayed in New York.

Or are these thoughts a stretch of the meaning of a few scenes?

As a matter of fact Willie Ciccie had a large part in an earlier draft of the GF3 screenplay, but he was probably written out because of the death of Joe Spinell.

And it wouldn't have been plausible anyway if Cicci returned. Remember that he testified against Michael...



I think these thoughts are pretty much correct.

Good Eyes Danito, Good Eyes....Which leads me to believe, however, that Cicci originated in Sonny's Regime and Clemenza took him as a 'protege'of sorts (similar as how he "mentored" Rocco' eventually leading to a "secret Rocco Regime" while Rocco had already "built/earned" his own "secret Regime), Clemenza was more than likely "conditioning" Cicci for a high, if not similar 'position'........Thoughts Anyone?..........

In that scene I also liked his hat. But, as the novel states, after the Don's meeting, Vito instructs that Sonny's Regime is to be disbanded and the men placed in Clemenza's and Tessio's Regimes. So, yes, Cicci migrated to Clemenza's Regime and he eventually achieved capo rank.

I think the first time Cicci is seen is after the Chinese takeout dinner, when Sonny and Michael are saying goodbye. Look in the background. Tessio starts in one direction, stops, and gestures to Cicci. He's next seen when they go to the matresses, and FFC's father is playing the piano.

I think you're right TB. He has a great screen presence considering the role he played. He has that mobster look. That's probably why FFC had him in so many scenes.

That's right. About a year ago I made a little montage with all the Cicci scenes in GF(1). Unfortunately, YT removed it.
Here's another try
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/8054409/Cicci_s_dance