When Fredo came to Havana and said he was in the dark about what was going on, and Mike explained and asked if he knew either Roth or Ola, Fredo said he never met them. Wouldn't he have met Ola at the party in Tahoe since they were both there?

I thought it was implied Ola left after he talked with Michael. There is a chance that they didn't even see each other at the party. Of course the plot against Michael had already been accidentaly set into motion by Fredo anyway. Fredo at the time he denied talking to Roth or Ola was just trying to get Michael off his back. Pretending to be in the dark about the hit/deal was the best thing he could have done.

A little later on in GF2 , when they are at the sex club Fredo mentions that Johnny Ola had showed him this place..goes to establish that Fredo and Ola had contact before.. also evidenced by the look on Mike's face as Fredo said it.

I think it is quite likely that Ola made contact with Fredo at the Tahoe site, since Fredo was based in Las Vegas, and Ola was in Miami. If not there, where?

Fredo talks about "bumping into Johnny Ola in Hollywood" when he is confronted by Mike after the Havana New Year party back at Tahoe. I don't remember the exact quote, but I do remember him mentioning something like that in the movie.

Ok, but Fredo was trying to fool Michael into thinking he didn't know Johnny Ola until he was introduced at the New Years eve party.

Correct,

If Michael would have found out that Fredo was in cohoots with Ola, then that would have been a dead give away to who the family traitor was. And we know how Michael deals people who have betrayed the family. Although it really was pretty awful how Michael ordered the death of Fredo. If it was me I would have just sent him to Tomasino's Villa and made him stay there in exile.

What kind of punishment would that have been. He would have access to all the lovely ladies of the town

I suspect Fredo avoided Ola like the plague at the communion. If Fredo had just admitted he HAD met Ola briefly at his nightclub or something, then Fredo could have survived

How about this scenario? It has been discussed that Fredo was in some way connected to the shooting in Mikes bedroom in Tahoe. If this is true, then wouldn't it make sense that Ola approached Fredo at Tahoe and told him to leave the have the curtains open

Yes, that's it.

One night in Havana after the Superman show, Ola told Fredo that there was this big deal going on and Mike was being tough on the negotiations...so if Fredo would just open the drapes in Michael & Kay's bedroom on the night of Anthony's First Communion party, then it would be good for the family and also something in it for him.

Apple

But didnt that phone call take place after the shooting of the bedroom?

Johnny Ola, I'm going to leave you alone because I know you are just a kid. You have alot of years ahead of you to enjoy and learn from all the Godfather films (well, except for GFIII).

I can only suggest you use them wisely and don't get too dependent upon this board to answer every question that comes into your head. You'll find it's alot more fun to just watch the movies and delight in each revelation as it comes to you...on your own.

Best,
AppleOnYa

Kid? Well aren't you the Miss Know-it-all! First of all, isn't the purpose of these boards to discuss the films with other fans? If we just, as you suggested, just watched the movies and only delighted in the each new revelation, without sharing thoughts with other on this message board, then there would be no reason for these boards to exist!

As for being a kid, in many ways I am, but not in years! I know nothing about you, but as for me, I read the novel, before I saw the film before it first came out in theaters!

If you find my questions to be silly and childish, then please refrain from answering my queries.

Oh-oh.

Oh, then you're not a kid? Thanks for confirming I just wanted to make sure.

I figured anybody who's occupation is 'Messenger Boy' had got to be around 16. Maybe that's just a joke.
Then forget everything in my previous post.

I'll be back every time I see a really dumb query, especially from a 'grown-up' who's read the novel and saw the movie when it first came out in theaters.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll get back to figuring out what Tattaglia was whispering to his guy at the meeting.

Miss know-it-all,
AppleOnYa

Um, perhaps not exactly, Johnny.

There are some who would say that the purpose is to discuss only those questions which some self-appointed arbiters of worthiness deem as worthy of discussion.

That gives our self-appointed arbiters

1- The opportunity to insult other members by referring to their age and implying that someone who is not an adult cannot have any thoughts, questions, or ideas worthy of discussion,

2- The chance to belittle any member, regardless of their age, by suggesting that their thoughts, questions or ideas are not worthy of discussion, and

3- The occasion to make new members feel unwelcome by belittling and demeaning their thoughts, questions, or ideas.

Can't tell you how many potentially interesting new members we've lost that way...

People who posted something, only to be demeaned and belittled for what they wrote, and never seen or heard from again.

Ah, well.....

I guess you need a thick skin to be a member of the Gangster BB.

Don't worry about Apple. I was on here a couple of years back and nothings changed. Some of the sarcasm is funny, most not.

I cannot BELEIVE Fredo would simply open the curtains like that, beleiving it would it help negotiations

I think Apple has some worms.

The attitude is definitely getting old.

And I think that everyone should step back, take a deep breath, and stop it with the back and forth personal shit.

Everyone here has the right to post a GF related question in this thread. And no one has the right to belittle or attack another member here because they feel that the question is without merit. If you feel that a question or idea posted here is not worth answering, then just don't answer it.


Don Cardi

Maybe if you would thought things out and had some sort of sense of humor, you might have figured out why I put in messengerboy as my occupation. Hint: Johnny Ola = Sicilian "Messenger Boy" Did you not see my signature "I love my Chrysler and tuna fish sandwiches" and make the connection? It is a well known fact, that one should not put too much, if any personal information on the Internet. Since this message is for fun, and "entertainment purposes only", I thought I would have a little fun with my profile.

I didn't realize that you were the judge and jury on deciding the intelligence of posts. Should I in the future, submit my posts to you beforehand, for your approval, so as not to bring down the standards of the board?

Ok , you've all made your points and said your peace. Now ALL of you, end it.


Don Cardi

Your point about Fredo is well taken, and I thought the same thing. I think the question of "who opened the curtains" has been discussed many times, and never really resolved. Using some logic, Fredo is the real choice, or possibly Rocco? Here's my logic.

Roth tried to have Mike killed at Tahoe

Roth's messenger boy was Johnny Ola

Johnny Ola was at Tahoe with his men

Fredo was at Tahoe

Fredo was one of the few people that would have had access to Mikes bedroom, since I am sure there was all types of security surrounding the house.

Now the question remains, and as you stated "Could Fredo be that dumb to think opening the curtains would help negotations?" Not really that far fetched, considering Fredo's mentality. No where in GFI or II, did Fredo show any signs of intelligence. Most of his scenes he was shown to childlike and very easily led.

The entire "shooting in the bedroom" scenario has left us with a few "loose ends", such as, who opened the curtains and who were the men that did the shooting and who shot them?

How did things ever get so far? I don't know. It was so -- unfortunate -- so unnecessary.

Apple made a comment -- and I responded. We're quits. And if Apple agrees, then I'm willing

to -- let things go on the way they were before...

But I must have strict assuracnes from Apple, as her position gets stronger, will she attempt any individual vendetta??

Johnny - good points, But Fredo couldn't have been that dumb if he had managed to transform himself into a high rolling Casino man at Moe's casino. Ah I dunno, Id rather beleive it was Rocco that opened the curtains, then allowed himself to die at the end

Whatever he did to help Roth (which does remain an unanswered question), I don't think even Fredo would aid in anything that he thought would bring harm to Michael. Even a potential kidnapping, which has also been discussed it the past.

And just being Michael's brother wouldn't necessarily give him access to roam around the house and open the bedroom drapes.

The drapes thing is another of those 'holes' that just have to be accepted and forever open to speculation because there's just no concrete answer.

Another unresolveable problem with the whole drapes thing regardless of WHO opened them is:

Why would Kay Corleone, who has presumably lived in that house for at least 4 years, suddenly one evening after a huge party consisting of hundreds of guests, many of whom she did not know and some of whom probably remained as guests on the compound...get into bed and comfortably under the covers without noticing that her bedroom curtains were open until her husband was standing in front of them.

Know-it-all bitch that I am, I can tell you it's just not something a woman would do. Especially a woman who is presently unhappy and mistrustful with her current 'family' situation.

So as with many films that are otherwise great, there is a certain futility in micro-analyzing and trying to find an answer to many of the details which are really unanswerable or at best lead to another unanswerable question.

But I agree...it can sometimes be fun.

Apple

You talk about vengeance -- is vengeance gonna bring Apple to being nice? Or my respect back to

me? I forgo the vengeance of my respect -- But I have selfish reasons. My pride -- was

forced to be questioned --

(-- because of this Fedo business. All right -- and I have to make arrangements to bring

back my pride -- cleared of all these false charges. But I'm a superstitious man -- and

if some unlucky accident should befall me -- if I should get shot in the head by a police

officer -- or if I -- should hang myself in my jail cell -- or if I am struck by a bolt of

lightning -- then I'm going to blame some of the people in this room. And that, I do not

forgive.



But -- that aside -- let me say that I swear -- on the souls of my grandchildren -- that I will

not be the one to break the peace that we have made here today...

"That's the whole matter then, we have the peace, and let me pay my respects to Johnny Ola, whom we have all known over the years as a man of his word."




Don Cardi

Apple had all the judges in her pocket and refused to share them...

"Is this how you turned out? A Hollywood Finocchio that ah cries like a woman?"




Don Cardi