I'm possibly leading my self to be ridiculed once again, but no matter, I am actually asking for counsel and for help.

Does Mike make Vincent the Don because he thinks he should or does he do it because he has to do it as there is no-one else??

While I'm here, I enjoyed GFIII this time around, could have done without Keaton and her 'dread' stuff. But I liked watching Calo and Neri this time around, shame we didn't see more of them.

That is actually a good question - i will have to pay more attention to that the next time Part 3 is on (and i just checked and found out its on AMC later this week).

If i had to answer now, i would say its more a case of there aren't many left and Vincent seems willing and able to do the work necessary to run the family. Michael seems resigned to many fates in Part 3, and one of them is picking a successor - does he view his health issues as a sign that running the family is literally killing him? I don't think he had Vincent in mind as his first choice, but he felt more a need to pick someone then to wait for the right person.

But the next time i see the movie i might have a different answer.

I think at the point of GF3, Michael tutors Vincent and realizes he is, at that particular time, the best candidate to replace himself. Anthony wants no part of it; Vincent is willing to learn and is after all his brother's son, albeit illegitimate. Vincent grasps what he needs to learn and manages to learn to control his temper, a feat his father never accomplished. I think in this aspect of the movie, Michael is like his father in counseling and teaching patience to the young man.

But the first thing that Vinnie did was order four hits. I suppose he did what he had to do to protect Mike. But it was hardly the most 'legitimate' thing to do. He behaved like Sonny who was a bad don in Vito's eyes

I think that Michael picked Vincent for two reasons. Partially because there really was no one else left to take over the Corleone buisness. But the major factor, IMO, for Michael handing the reigns over to Vincent was that he saw it as an opportunity to pry Vincent away from Mary.

Michael knew that Vincent thirsted to be both recognized as a Corleone by his uncle Michael and to eventually run the family. So Michael took advantage of Vincent's lust for power and recognition and used it to try and save his daughter Mary from Vincent and the danger that she would have been subject to had she remained with Vincent.

"Give up my daughter, it's the price you pay."

That, to me, was his real reason.


Don Cardi

I think you might be right.

Its the 'I would burn in hell to keep you safe' thing isn't it.

Giving the family to Vincent could be very dangerous, but he'll do it as long his own is safe

Personally I thnik the damage is done, the news would have leaked out that Vinnie cares for Mary, putting her in danger even after he finishes with her

I agree with DC's reasons and I want to add another:
Michael was the master manipulator and people-user. He saw Vincent's lust for power as being potentially greater than his lust for Mary (as DC said). But he also saw a way to use him:
If Michael'd had his way, Vincent would whack all his foes, leaving Michael to take over Immobiliari and complete his transition to the "legitimate" world. Then Vincent, who was a pazzo anyway, would essentially run all the "illegitimate" stuff that Michael was no longer interested in, and was jettisoning. Michael was giving away the sleeves of his vest. But Vincent would still be his ally, his pit bull in reserve, to scare away potential encroachers on his legitimate territory.
A brilliant ploy! So what does Michael, the genius do? Told that Sicily's top assassin, "a man who never fails," is gunning for him, Michael brings his beloved daughter and ex-wife with whom he's trying to reconcile, to sit next to him in a public theater. Three sitting ducks, all in a row.

Yes, but they never got a shot at them while they were in the opera box. Almost, but between the twins running enough interference, nd George Hamilton getting Michael out of there to tell him about the Pope, was enough to prevent an assassination inside the theater.

Actually,what happened was Vincent's orders to get everyone in the cars fast was not obeyed. If Mary hadn't been standing on the steps slowing everyone down and whining about Michael engineering the break up with Vincent, and had been moving quickly to the cars, maybe they would have gotten away. All of this brings me to think there was more of Kay in Mary than I previously realized.

But exactly why did Connie need to kill Don Altobello?

Apple

the assassin wouldnt of tried to kill mary or kay cos he wouldnt of wanted more attention then needed and i think michael knew this.

As Connie says Vincent is the only one left with Vito's strength so i think that was part of the reason for being made don

Altobello had conspired to kill michael with Joey Sasa

Did Michael ever know that Altobello had conspired to kill him? Did he ever know of Connie's decision to kill Altobello?

Or did she take it upon herself to do so?

I know what you're all going to say and don't bother...I'm not going to watch the movie.

Apple

Why did Michael need to have Cuneo and Stracci killed?

Then why not refrain from discussions concerning the film?

1. When he had Cuneo and Stracci killed, Michael was the Don...not the Don's sister.

2. Because reading this thread it suddenly hit me that here's this woman took it upon herself to murder someone. I was curious as to why, shouldn't this decision belong to either her brother or (upon his ascension to the thrown) nephew?

Best,
Apple

There is no question that the idea of Connie poisoning Altobello came from Don Corleone. But it was from Don Vincent Corleone, because Michael had given it up. The final plans that ended GFIII were Vincent's.

The act of "making her bones" was the final transformation for Connie, whom I believe to be one of the most compelling characters in the trilogy.

Thanks, dontom...that actually makes sense.

Indeed, Talia Shire's own story is a very interesting one. I'm glad she got to bring Connie full circle and she does deserve credit right up there with her brother, Puzo & Pacino as far as making The Trilogy what it is.

Apple

Interesting thought about Mary and Kay being alike. But evidently Michael didn't heed one of his father's pearls of wisdom: "Women and children can afford to be careless. But not men."

I'm not sure why some of you are making Altobello's murder a Connie decision. To me it's obvious that Michael co-opted her to kill an acknowleged enemy.

As far as Michael making Vinnie the Don, Vinnie was the only blood male relative left, and as Connie said, "You're the only one left who has my father's strength."

Just before he had his diabetic stroke in Connie's apartment, Michael said, "Our true enemy has yet to show himself." Then he has the stroke, and while clutching himself, he gasps (I believe): "Altobello...f**k"..." almost to suggest that the realization that Altobello was the true enemy caused his stroke. At least that's what it sounded like to me.
(Now, maybe you'll have to watch the movie after all (or at least that scene)? )

Actually, Vincent was NOT the only 'blood male relative' as Santino had left behind at least one son Frank, probably another (the baby Sandra was carrying at Connie's wedding...was that a boy?), and Connie had two sons of her own.

That's one of the beefs I've always had with GFIII, the fact that they had to fabricate this illegitimate child with little or no reference to the other male heirs in the family. Wouldn't a feud between Sonny's sons or even the cousins have been interesting? Instead, we got a love affair between cousins.

I know Connie told Vincent he was the only one left with her father's strength (another of the few scenes I've seen )...that's because everyone else was written out.

Apple

Well, I guess the writers had to make a choice among the offspring. Of Vito's children, who would you think would produce a child with the characteristics to get involved in the family business. I'd pick Sonny. Mike's kids went with Kay eventually; Connie's kids? Well hell, she never showed any aggression except in that scene at the end of GFI in Mike's office. And you could never have an Irish Don, could you?

I might pick Sonny too...and as stated, he had at least ONE other son, and maybe TWO besides Vincent. Half-brothers vying for a position that should've gone to their father. Great story.

And Connie? You can say she never showed any agression except in one scene (which is incorrect because she was a real snot with Michael when trying to 'book passage on 'The Queen')...but lets remember that her (neglected) children had one other parent and his name was Carlo Rizzi.

Yes, the writers had to make a choice. And they made the wrong one.

But of course...the movie has been around for 15 years and nothing's going to change it now !!

Apple

Apple - We know that Mike knew of Altobello's guilt midway through the film when - during his diabetic fit - he called Altobello a 'deceitful old fuck' in front of Connie and Neri, letting them both know Mike knew exactly who was responsbile for the attmepted hit

Why not? Why wouldn't you want to watch the GFIII when you are such a fan of GFI & II?

You confuse me Apple. I cannot understand why you wouldn't take the time to watch the movie.

Surely, like many of us, you've wasted your time watching movies that have turned out to be a bomb, right? And while GFIII is not an acadamy award movie, or anywhere near what GFI and GFII were, it in iteslf is a pretty good movie and will keep you interested, especially being a GF fan.

If you approach it as a third movie without the expectations of living up to a I and II, then I assure you that you will enjoy it. Lots of Politics, which I know that you enjoy, and a lot of search for redemption, which makes Michael's character a pretty interesting one for this movie.

You weren't going to bother reading the book, and then you finally gave in, read it, and enjoyed it.

Take 2 hours of your time and watch GFIII.

When has Don Cardi ever steered you wrong?


Don Cardi

Don Cardi...as I've stated here before, I have tried several times to watch GFIII (including two weekends ago during the marathon weekend) and can barely get past the monotony of the first 40 minutes. Have always ended up walking away or changing channels in disgust. It's not like going to the movies, where you've already paid for the ticket and might as well sit through the whole thing. Sure, I could force myself to sit there and ingest the whole thing and maybe someday I will...but it just hasn't seemed worth the effort.

I no longer try to watch with the expectations of GF and GFII, because I've known for years it has no hope of equalling those expectations. So, I do think of it as a separate movie, and one I can't get up enough enthusiasm to see.

I finally read the novel because somebody actually handed it to me...I wouldn't exactly call it 'giving in', but more appreciation of a friend being thoughful enough to go to the trouble. After that, I wasn't going to let it sit on a shelf in my home (But you're right, I did enjoy it !)

GFIII ??? As I used to say about the novel.... maybe someday , perhaps when I buy The Trilogy.

Apple

I would happily watch GFIII again if it only took two hours.

Apple - If you actually saw the whole film, then your mockery of it may be accepted on here. At the mo, we could just accuse you of ignorance.

Of COURSE it could never touch I and II in it's wildest dreams, but as the Don says, its still decent enough, with top top performances from Pacino and Garcia

Dear Hollywood F,

My 'mockery' of GFIII and other things has been 'accepted' here for nearly 4 years. It might get me into an argument about 99% of the time and I may not be the most beloved BB member in history ....but as you can see I am still here.

Now I said I was finished with you and have resisted temptation by ignoring much of your stuff for the past few days.
(Well, mostly because I'm ascared of Don Cardi... )
Do us all a favor and take advantage of a good thing.

So Turnbull...exactly how long is GFIII...and more importantly, how long does it seem when being watched ???

Apple

Turnbull, whatsa matta with you? I posted "two hours" to at least try and get her to think about watching it.

You know, it's like when you are lost in some small southern town, stop and ask for directions, and they tell you that is "just down the road a little bit" and by the time you drive "down the road a little bit" you've actually gone about 15 miles?

Apple, it's actually about a 2 hour and 40 minute movie.


Don Cardi

Well, that's fair then.

As it is, I usually last through the first 40 minutes; now someday I'll add the remaining 2 hours to that.


Apple