I am not a qualified shrink, but it occurs to me (duh) that Michael had a seriously depressive personality.

If you look at the arc of his life, Michael is ALWAYS in a negative frame of mind. In the flashback scene, Sonny introduces him as that "droopy" thing over there. Michael is not particularly happy or proud that he signed up for the Marines, but instead seems defiant and angry --- as if he did it to piss off his family.

As he goes through his whole rebellious stage telling his father he will never be a man like him, he is also not a happy young man. Then when he takes over the family he seems to resent his role as having been unjustly put on his shoulders.

I cant think of any scene where Michael is actually enjoying himself. Sonny certainly knew how to have fun, so did Fredo, Tom did to a lesser extent, and even Vito could enjoy things like the love of his family, a nice piece of fruit, a glass of wine, playing with his grandson...but Michael..no way.

I wonder if Michael didnt carry around such depression and anger if he would not have been a better Don and maybe not as trigger happy and perhaps more able to make compromises, and live less dangerously (like Vito).

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Yes, particularly in Godfather II, we rarely see him smile, and he never laughs. (Not that there was much to laugh at). He forced a smile in Havana when he was jokingly told that one of the politicos does a mean samba or cha-cha. His relationship with Anthony is cold and distant. His mannerisms and expressions were frequently lifeless, but maybe it was his attempt to follow Vito's advice of never letting anyone know what he was thinking.
If only Sonny knew this.

You can sort of see Michael enjoying himself in the scenes before the "I'm with you" scene at the hospital - specifically in the scenes with Kay. Everything after that, you can see the weight of the Family on his shoulders.

Yes, those scenes in bed with Kay were the only ones where Michael actually looked happy and even playful.
But, as that flashback scene at the end of II shows, the guy was inclined toward melancholy. He was also an extreme controller--even then, if you take what he told Tom at face value ( You ...talked to my father...about my future..."). People who have such lifelong behaviors are often described as having "obsessive/compulsive disorder."

Michael separated his family and "family" lives. They both had their very serious sides, but Michael manifests that serious in on eof htose lives because that life involves life and death struggles.

True enough. But Michael's attempt to separate the two (as in GFII--"Senator, we're both part of the same hypocrisy. But never think it has anything to do with my family") was yet another of his self-deceptive (and unsuccessful) attempts at overcontrol--to rationalize his own criminal nature. That very night, his fantasy collided with reality when his bedroom was machine-gunned. The look that Kay gave him afterward, while holding Mary on the couch, said it all.
And Kay nailed it but good in III, when she and Michael had their confrontation at his party. Michael bellows that "I spent my life protecting my family from the horrors of this world." And Kay replies, "But you became my horror." Perfecto, Kay!

True enough, but I wonder if Michael really saw the world as a place filled with horrors from which he had to protect his family. The "horrors" he refers to are mostly "horrors" he brought on himself, and the idea it was his burden to protect them from these horrors shows how totally deluded he was.

Exactly, dt! That's why I think that scene is so revealing.

When Michael got married (the first time), he looked very happy...think of the dance scene.

Yes, that's what I thought, too. He seems happy when he's meeting Apollonia's family and the wedding scene with her. Other than that, he is very guarded and wary with everyone.

I thought about that sscene when I made my initial post, and in looking at it, I think he is more relieved than happy. I think his feeling was he may never get back to the US, and that at the very least he could find some comfort with Apollonia.

I think the Appolonia sequence is the real turning point for Michael.

Obviously, he's in pretty deep before that, but I think the killing of Appolonia really shows him that he can NEVER let his guard down. Before her murder, he seems pretty relaxed in Sicily, as evidenced by his candor to Vitelli.

In any case, it's hard to criticize the guy as paranoid when his father's been shot and his wife's been blown up.

You know what I will say, do you not? It was ffc's intention to make him look paranoid, and he performed this idea with great sacrifices on the part of sense and consistency. No sign of such personality can be discovered in the original Michael, created by Puzo in the book.
OK, OK, I know that you were not asking my opinion for hundredth time so i'll better go.

The part about Michael that I never understood was his seemingly negative and aggressive attitude towards Tom,when he was basically brother of his. Why did he remove him as consigliere in favor of non-family member Carlo before the move to Nevada when Tom had been Vito's consigliere in Part 1? Why does he later aggressively dig up dirt on him and ask if he was going to go along with the things he had to do in Part 2?

I don't think Michael ever had any intention of allowing Carlo any meaningful participation in the family business. I believe that by recognizing Carlo as an asset in the move out to Vegas was a way of keeping his enemies close.

Yea thats a good point. He probably knew that Carlo wasn't to be trusted. But what do you think about the rocky relationship between Michael and Tom?

I think as effective a negotiator and don that Michael was, he struggled with personal relationships. It was as if part of his humanity died with Appolonia. After the Tahoe shooting he became even more morose and distrusting. I think he would have had a rocky relationship with anyone put in Tom's position.

I believe that it has been posted on these boards that Tom failed him in certain instances. Consequently, part of the rocky relationship, I would think, stemmed from this.

In what ways did Tom fail him?

Before the Senate Committee, I believe Tom was in the dark about Pentangeli. Having Michael read his statement laid a foundation for perjury. Also, Tom didn't know that the Senator (Questat[sp])belonged to Roth. Michael pulled this info from Fredo.

I think Michael's frustration with Tom was evident during his return from Cuba when he yelled, Why can't I get a straight answer from you anymore!" I actually didn't think Tom was being evasive...I guess he wasn't as direct as michael would have wanted.

Turnbull has exceptional recall and amazing analysis and could expand on this. I think he talked about this not too long ago.

Thanks, Klydon.
Tom was Vito's choice for consigliere after Genco died, not Michael's--hyper-controller that he was, only Michael could have been Michael's consigliere.
I believe, though I can't prove, that Michael may have blamed Tom for Sonny's demise. A real Sicilian consigliere would have foreseen that Carlo's public beating and humiliation by Sonny would lead to revenge. Yes, Tom tried to stop Sonny and sent men after him, but Michael may have figured that a real Sicilian consigliere wouldn't have let it get that far in the first place.
As Klydon said, Tom really blew it by not knowing about Pentangeli's survival and that Questadt "belongs to Roth." Tom told Michael that "our people with the New York detectives said [Frankie] was half-dead, scared, talking out loud about how you betrayed him..." DUH-H-H, Tom: where were you and your people with the New York detectives when you counseled your one and only client, Michael to perjure himself five times?
In the novel, following Sonny's murder, Tom himself realizes that he's not a wartime consigliere..."old Genco would have smelled a rat."

So - it's 1946, and Michael is just getting out of the USMC - what are we supposed to believe he is doing for a living or where is he living period? - the wedding is in the summer - the assassination attempt in December?

Maybe he still has a taste for killing people that's nagging him - and what is he going to do? - he's like what? 26-28 years old at the most - and doing what in 1947 - brooding and hoping for some other opportunity to show up his father and Sonny?

Does anyone know what Kay is talking about when arguing with Michael in GF2 aright before she tells him that she had their child aborted? When she says "Anthony is not fine" and Michael shoots back "Anthony is fine." What is wrong with Anthony that Michael doesn't want to admit?

I've always thought he had some sort of learning disability or emotional problem. - I thought he had shades of Fredo'ism.


Something was seriously wrong enough for Kay to raise it as one of two issues when fought with Michael

Then, many years later a gem called Godfather part III was made - and I guess it was he liked music.

She says his only friends are Michaels bodygurads not with anyone his age, and he had to stay within the compound at all times that is a reason to say that "Anthony isn't fine!"

In a scene from an early script treatment, Kay elaborates her concerns to Tom:

KAY
He's not like a little boy... he
doesn't talk to me; he doesn't want
to play; he doesn't like other
children, he doesn't like toys.
It's as though he's waiting for the
time he can take his Father's place.
(almost in tears)
You know what he told me when he
was four years old. He said he had
killed his Grandfather...

VIEW ON HAGEN

listening, calmly.

KAY
... He said he had shot his
Grandfather with a gun, and then he
died in the garden. And he asked
me... he asked me, Tom, if that
meant now his father would shoot
him out of... revenge.
(she cries)
How does a four year old boy learn
the word... 'revenge'?

HAGEN
Kay... Kay...

VIEW ON KAY

KAY
What kind of a family is this...
are we human beings? He knows his
Father killed his Uncle Carlo. He
heard Connie.

I think a chilling moment in G2 occurred when Michael tells Anthony he is going away on business for a few days, and Anthony asks if he can go too, "I can help you."

Michael, looking at Anthony with passionless eyes, says, "Someday."

And also there was a shooting at their home that could mess up any child.

"I'm listening, Micheal. You've had issues with your domineering father and your slightly effete younger brother; well, I can certainly understand that. You feel the need to stay in control of the family, at any cost. Well, just be glad that you didn't hire a whiny British care worker to live with you, or the family might not have survived the War. You want the best for your own children, but you will have to let them make their own decision and choices. What's that you say? Your son dropped out of law school to become an opera singer, and your daughter is shagging your nephew? Well... maybe sometimes violence is the answer."

LOL

Where is Dr. Phil when we need him?

Message from Dr. Phil:

Now Micheal,what I am about to tell you,your'e not gonna like.You say you had not planed to take over the family buisness,but you had no choice.You say that you have to protect your family--but I believe you are single handedly destroying it.You love your children right? Yet you had their uncle murderd!!! And now you come cryin'to me about how things just don't go your way.Well we have a saying were I come from: You can't get married in a corn feild by throwin' monkyes at the President. So deal with it.