I'd like to propose a scenario. Suppose that back during the era when our great-granparents and grandparents came here from Italy, what if we had the media we have today: newspaper, the web, cable TV, radio, and 24/7 news. Would our ancestors have been raked over the coals like some in the media rake immigrants (legal or illegal) today? Afterall, how many of them spoke english?; how many jobs were they taking from real Americans?; were they still loyal to Italy?: what about that strange food?; they all stick together in those ghettos; and what about the Mafia?

I wonder.

I'm not sure what "real Americans" means in this context...

But you probably have a point in there. The Media sucks*.

*(Off topic: Yes, I'm a Grammar Whore, but don't always play by the rules. I think Media should be a singular/collective noun. I hate "the Media are" as much as I hate "[band name] are" -- Bon Jovi IS playing; the Rolling Stones ARE playing. It should be as easy as that, but no....)

singular: medium
plural: media

I think that if they had the same media back then italians wouldnt have assimilated into white society as well as they did.

Oli, the constant among media, then and now, is that media don't produce themselves--they are written, edited, scripted, published and videoed by people who bring their own life experiences--including biases and stereotypes--to what they report on. If all those media existed a century ago, there'd be that much more opportunity to express bigotry against Italians.

What media?

Who rakes immigrants over the coals?

I think immigrants from the past wish they had it half as good as today's immigrants.

It may have slowed down the assimilation process.

If Italians had RAI via Dish Network or cable back in the day, it may have resulted in fewer immigrants learning English.

Look at today's Hispanic immigrants. They have about 30 channels to chose from on free tv and cable. But they do seem to be assimilating. Most Hispanics under the age of 55 prefer English.

In the Chinese communities in Queens, mainly Flushing there are Chinese academies all over the place. Why? To teach Chinese. Why teach it in school? Because kids in the Chinese community aren't learning it at home anymore. But they feel that it's ridiculous to be Chinese and not speak the language. They feel America expects them to "speak their language".

Exactly. Just like me, I'm sure that the other Italian Board memebrs have relatives who can relate stories of prejudice against them because they were Italian. With widespread media during the early part of the 20th century, more and more non-Italians would have been alarmed at the influx of these people who could barely communicate in english and who weren't really American.

Both sets of grandparents (and my father) came from Sicily in the 1920s. Although I am fairly sure they must have faced discrimination at some point, they NEVER discussed it with me. Then again, my father was very young and both my grandfathers passed away before I was born.

I DO know that most Italians that came to Grand Rapids Michigan, like my grandparents (some went to Detroit)did gather to their own neighborhoods, went to Italian parish churches and stuck together. Many of my relatives started their own businesses. My father and uncle (and some cousins) started in their own Dry Cleaning businesses. One Great Uncle had a shoe repair shop (remember those?). One grandfather worked for the railroad and one started his own convenience type store in Detroit before moving to Grand Rapids.

One of my favorite stories my father told me was when he started school in America. His parents spoke no English, and my father literally learned it from playing in the neighborhood and such. My father had to translate what my grandmother said to his teacher. My grandmother told my father, "You tell your teacher if you misbehave she has permission to spank you. AND if you come home crying because you got spanked, you'll get another spanking." My dad explained how as a little kid he hated to tell the teacher that be of course did as he was told. LOL I can't even imagine that going over today.

Looking back I guess I was raised in a more positive atmosphere. I was taught to be a proud American and yet to have enormous pride in my heritage as well. I guess I've done the same with my kids.

TIS

When my grandmothers' sister got married, they found an apartment on Wycoff Ave and Gates along the Queens/Brooklyn border.

Neighborhood was still German. So they had to get a German friend to vouch that they were "good ginnies" or they weren't going to get that apartment.

That's exactly where my grandparents live, even today...on Gates Avenue and Wyckoff. Seriously. If you use google earth, type in "Carmela's grandparents", it'll come up. Go ahead, you know you wanna.

Amazing they still live there. They must be in their eighties based on the age I think you are.

I went to Spanish mass at St. Brigid's about a month ago. Do they go to that parish?

As much as people here complain about racism against Italians, truth is, by the 1930's, and probably sooner, there were lots of Italians marrying Germans, Irish, or whatever else. Italians were already assimilating and accepted into mainstream culture in places like NY. Might have been different in other parts of America.

You and I are the same age, remember? They're in their 90's, still hanging on Gates. Gotta love rent control. haha

Yeah, even when I still lived on Grove St, there were a lot of Germans, Irish, Syrians moving in.

Yes! St. Brigid's was my parish and it's still theirs. I loved that church. How great you attended Mass there. I barely go into Ridgewood anymore.

I agree with what you've said in here with regard to the topic, too.

Carmela,

Why do you avoid Ridgewood?

Yes. Italians had a tradition of marrying young, while other Europeans waited--especially Irish males who were most likely to wait until their mid-thirties.

Is not that I avoid it for any particular reason, but I have no real reason to go back. I'm a complete Jersey girl, but I'll go into Bklyn to see family, go to parties, whatever. There's nothing for me in Queens anymore. Well, Russo's On The Bay is nice, but that's another story.

"You goddamn guineas you really make me laugh. I do you a favor and take Freddie in when you're having a bad time, and now you're gonna try and push me out!"