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Tom the captive
#656613
07/23/12 02:42 PM
07/23/12 02:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
OP
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OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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In real Mafia families, the consigliere is a high-level man, usually a caporegime with his own troops and rackets that bring him money. The Don appoints him consigliere as an added honor and because he values his advice. He’s never on salary, never a lawyer and never anything but a full-blooded Italian. Of course the Don can do what he wants. And Vito broke the mold with Tom Hagen for important reasons, mostly having to do with his own security:
Many people here have wondered how the Corleones, the biggest family in New York, could have gotten by with only two caporegimes. But the novel points out that Vito guarded himself against plots by having only two, and keeping them far apart—Clemenza lived at the Mall, Tessio was on his own and seemed to operate almost independently, the better to confuse his enemies and to keep the two from conspiring against him. He had raised Tom as a son from a tender age, assuring that he would be as loyal as Sonny. He sent Tom to law school to strengthen his power base with judges and politicians—as a fellow lawyer and fellow “Irishman,” Tom could be more effective and less an object of scorn among those bigots than an Italian. Tom probably drew a salary from Genco Olive Oil and got handsome cash gifts from Vito. That way he didn’t have to to have soldiers and rackets, which assured that he wasn’t viewed as being in the “muscle end of the business,” and also meant that he’d never develop a power base that could be used against Vito. Nor would he have any assets of value to potential traitors in the family. He was, in effect, Vito’s captive.
That worked to Tom’s advantage when Vito was alive. But under Michael, Tom was not a son, or a brother, but “our lawyer.” Although Michael valued Tom and used him when he really needed him, Tom was never on the same ground as he was with Vito and Sonny. By the end of II, Tom was reduced to an object of Michael’s scorn. When Michael said, “I thought you were going to tell me that you’re leaving to become vice president of the House and Hotels,” and, “You can take your wife, your family and your mistress and move to Vegas,” he was not only belittling Tom, he was mocking him. “Why do you hurt me, Michael—I’ve always been loyal?” Tom was reduced to crawling, while Neri, so obviously the source of that info, smirked. What Michael was reminding Tom was that he couldn’t leave the family—he had nothing on his own, and had he tried, Michael would have him whacked rather than let him get out of his gilded prison.
Your thoughts?
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Tom the captive
[Re: Turnbull]
#656619
07/23/12 03:13 PM
07/23/12 03:13 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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When Michael said, “I thought you were going to tell me that you’re leaving to become vice president of the House and Hotels,” and, “You can take your wife, your family and your mistress and move to Vegas,” he was not only belittling Tom, he was mocking him. “Why do you hurt me, Michael—I’ve always been loyal?” Tom was reduced to crawling, while Neri, so obviously the source of that info, smirked. What Michael was reminding Tom was that he couldn’t leave the family—he had nothing on his own, and had he tried, Michael would have him whacked rather than let him get out of his gilded prison.
Your thoughts? I interpret this as a provocation; either forcing Tom to leave and at the same time testing his loyalty. After Fredo's betrayal, Michael did not trust anyone anymore, not even his own wife. Pretty much anyone had become disposable to Michael except his own children. That's why he put Tom on the spot. It was for selfish reasons only, he didn't care about hurting Tom, because he had nothing to lose for he had already lost his family.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Tom the captive
[Re: dontomasso]
#657387
07/27/12 12:48 PM
07/27/12 12:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,030
Texas
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I don't think Tom saw himself as a "captive," but rather a wannabe brother to Michael and Sonny. Tom always chafed at Michael keeping him out of the loop, and there's a foreshadowing of the distance between them in the flashback scene at the end of II when Michael announces he's joined the Marines. Tom tells Michael that he and Vito went to a lot of trouble to keep him from being drafted, and how he and Vito had discussed Michael's future. Michael is furious and sneers," You discuss MY future with MY father?" DT, you've pretty well summarized their relationship. I've always maintained on this Board that Michael developed an antipathy toward Tom that was born, in part, from what you cite in the flashback scene. Add to that Tom's failure to protect the family. One could even throw in the seeming favor that Vito showed toward Tom as perceived by Michael. Although Micahel chose to estrange himself from his father, he may have rationalized some of that estrangement by blaming Tom. It starts early in the film: why would Michael introduce "Tom Hagen" to Kay?
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Tom the captive
[Re: dontomasso]
#657406
07/27/12 02:22 PM
07/27/12 02:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
OP
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OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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I agree that Vito was generous in his treatment of Tom. He not only raised him as a son, but the novel says he offered to stake Tom to whatever career he wanted, no strings attached, no quid pro quo. Tom asked to work for Vito. And, Tom (presumably for reasons relating to the dissoluteness of his own parents), was almost pathologically dependent on the Corleones to be his family. I think the novel said he had nightmares, and he cried when Solozzo told him that Vito was dead. So, in many ways, Tom chose captivity.
But, the arrangements Vito, and later Michael, made for Tom assured he'd never stray off the range or get any big ideas on his own. It was a perfect arrangement for them, and for Tom under Vito. Not under Michael.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Tom the captive
[Re: Turnbull]
#667429
09/23/12 08:37 PM
09/23/12 08:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 24
Appolla
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 24
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I have a very different opinion on the Vito-Tom-Michael relationship than most of the people on this board.First of all I think Vito made a good bargain by taking in Tom as he was smart but he was not doing it on purpose. Tom could have chosen any other line of work but he wanted to be part of the organization. He rose pretty high too so I do not think his loyalty and skills went unhonored or unnoticed. In the book he seems to be fully aware of his situation and very satisfied with it.
Secondly, I think that Michael and Tom had a closer relationship than the majority opinion here. Tom was the only one who understood Michael and he knew this(even if Tom did not like everything Michael did).I think even Michael had to have someone like that around. For me the funeral scene in the book and the movie tells the same- Tom understands everything and supports Michael.
Also I always thought that in Godfather II when Michael yells at Tom is to tell him what is going to happen (with Frankie and Fredo too) and asking him whether he will go along with that. This was not a happy conversation but I see the tension at a different place than most people. And Tom says yes, and goes to deal with Frankie personally.
From Puzo's screenplay for Godfather III that was never made because of Robert Duvall it seems that old Michael and old Tom are in a brotherly relationship. Of course this does not mean that they always had a perfect relationship as with real brothers.
Last edited by Appolla; 09/23/12 08:39 PM.
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