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Theological question about Jesus' body #713680
05/02/13 07:47 PM
05/02/13 07:47 PM
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Danito Offline OP
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Here's a question that came up in a discussion with two friends of mine. Nobody knew the answer and I couldn't find it on Google or Wikipedia.
(And just to make sure: In this thread, I don't want to challenge anybody's beliefs.)

So as far as I get it, Christians believe that Jesus' body was resurrected after his death. After that he walks around for more than a month. After that he ascends to Heaven.
My question is: What happened to his body? Did Jesus leave his physical body behind? Or did he take his body physically to Heaven. And does that mean that Heaven is a physical place?
Is there an official Catholic version of what happened?

(Sorry if there's anything wrong in my terminology.)

Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: Danito] #713701
05/02/13 10:26 PM
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olivant Offline
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D, Jesus did ascend physically to Heaven (if you believe the whole thing) where he resides at the right hand of the Father and will return in bodily form to judge the living and the dead.
Remember that Jesus was both God and human and was able to appear and disappear. As one of the Trinity, Jesus is God and God's powers transcend physics.


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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: Danito] #713708
05/02/13 11:09 PM
05/02/13 11:09 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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According to LDS doctrine, upon resurrection, the body and spirit is permanently reunited and cannot be separated again, since that is what causes death. Once Christ took up His body again, in it's perfected and glorified form, He had it - has it - forever. He is a physical Being, with a body of flesh and bones (but not blood), in the form of a man, like His Father. But the Holy Ghost is a spirit, in the form of a man.

And, yes, heaven (if by that, you mean where God resides) is a physical place. Though it obviously also entails a state of being.


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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: Danito] #713768
05/03/13 11:39 AM
05/03/13 11:39 AM
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He got up and was never seen again. Olivant i don't mean any disrespect but do actually believe what you have just wrote.. To much for me.


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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: DE NIRO] #713776
05/03/13 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: DE NIRO
He got up and was never seen again. Olivant i don't mean any disrespect but do actually believe what you have just wrote.. To much for me.


I'm an atheist.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: DE NIRO] #713806
05/03/13 06:07 PM
05/03/13 06:07 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: DE NIRO
He got up and was never seen again. Olivant i don't mean any disrespect but do actually believe what you have just wrote.. To much for me.


If we're going by just the Bible record alone, Christ was seen by hundreds after the resurrection and prior to the ascension into heaven.


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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: IvyLeague] #714453
05/07/13 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: DE NIRO
He got up and was never seen again. Olivant i don't mean any disrespect but do actually believe what you have just wrote.. To much for me.


If we're going by just the Bible record alone, Christ was seen by hundreds after the resurrection and prior to the ascension into heaven.


Forgive my lack of Bible knowledge, but I thought only a few people saw Jesus after the Resurrection, I thought it was just some of the disciples. Also I seem to recall in most of the post resurrection stories, he sort of "appears." I know in one of them they don't even recognize him at first, all of which hints that he came back as a spirit...which I understand is not the teaching of the church. If anyone can help me out on this it would be appreciated.

As for the main question, the theology is that he physically rose into heaven, which does make it a place. BTW according to Roman Catholic teaching Mary also physically rose into heaven, so there are two "people" there.


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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: dontomasso] #714465
05/07/13 03:50 PM
05/07/13 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso

Forgive my lack of Bible knowledge, but I thought only a few people saw Jesus after the Resurrection, I thought it was just some of the disciples.


I can't quote or cite the verses off-hand, but the New Testament contains references that Jesus appeared to hundreds, including scores of people at one time. Others here might be able to fill in details without having to research. The appearance that is most fascinating to me is that of St. Paul, without whom Christianity wouldn't exist. He was among the fiercest persecutors of Christianity as the movement began, and yet overnight he became the Church's most prominent evangelist.

Putting aside whether the resurrected Jesus actually appeared to him, there is no earthly or logical reason why this conversion took place. Paul (Saul of Tarsus) was an extremely intelligent, well educated and prominent Pharisee, and by he forfeited any prominence to follow the movement that so zealously persecuted. Not only that, he became the central figure for the growing movement There isn't even a close historical parallel for something like this ever happening before or since.

I'm no theological expert, but always thought this was fascinating.

Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: klydon1] #714467
05/07/13 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: klydon1
Putting aside whether the resurrected Jesus actually appeared to him, there is no earthly or logical reason why this conversion took place.

Agreed. That, to me, is one of the things that makes Paul's story even more believeable and awe inspiring. Today it would be tantamount to the Grand Wizard of the KKK waking up one day a changed man, then going on Larry King with his arm around Al Sharpton and rebuking his old buddies.


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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: Danito] #714468
05/07/13 04:02 PM
05/07/13 04:02 PM
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An interesting thought on the body of Jesus is that when the disciples first proclaimed that Jesus rose from the dead, the Romans and Jewish high priests of the day shared a deep interest in putting an end to the claims. It is interesting to consider that if they at any time were able to produce a corpse of Jesus, Christianity would have been dead just as fast as it began. As such,there was surely an extensive investigation and search for the whereabouts of the body.

Also, both religious and historic references suggest that the tomb of Jesus had a Roman seal, and the penalty for breaking such a seal was usually death. I remember reading that the punishment would be administered to guards of a sea, which had been broken. If so, I've wondered whether the resurrection, if it had occurred as detailed in the gospels, resulted in the executions or arrests of innocent people.

Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: Danito] #714484
05/07/13 05:05 PM
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Oh, this topic could end up with the plethora of pages that we have over in the DOMA and Gun Control threads.

Only Matthew reports a guard at the tomb. There is nothing in that report to indicate that it is Roman guard because Pilate tells the Temple priests that they have a Temple guard that can use. All of the Gospels report that Jesus encountered several people (some of which did not recognize him) including his apostles after he rose, but it is only Corinthians that reports that he appeared to 500 at one time.


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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: Danito] #714496
05/07/13 05:45 PM
05/07/13 05:45 PM
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I think some guy wrote a great story, it's still a bestseller even after these years.


Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: dontomasso] #714524
05/07/13 10:25 PM
05/07/13 10:25 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Forgive my lack of Bible knowledge, but I thought only a few people saw Jesus after the Resurrection, I thought it was just some of the disciples. Also I seem to recall in most of the post resurrection stories, he sort of "appears." I know in one of them they don't even recognize him at first, all of which hints that he came back as a spirit...which I understand is not the teaching of the church. If anyone can help me out on this it would be appreciated.


I think it's always been understood that the guards at the tomb were Roman "soldiers," as the text calls them. It was a result of the priests going back to Pilate in concern that Christ's followers would take His body.

In Luke chapter 24, He appeared to 2 disciples but kept His identity from them. After He disappeared, they knew who He was.

Of course, Christ later appeared to the apostles when they were in hiding. He had them feel the wounds in His hands, feet, and side, as well as ate food, to show that He was not a spirit only, but had a physical resurrected body.

In 1 Corinthians chapter 15, Paul talks about how the risen Christ was "seen of over 500 brethren at once." And this was after He had already appeared to the remaining 11 apostles, plus the several of His female followers. People forget that Christ spent 40 days further teaching His followers before the ascension.

Last edited by IvyLeague; 05/07/13 10:28 PM.

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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: IvyLeague] #714539
05/08/13 12:30 AM
05/08/13 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
People forget that Christ spent 40 days further teaching His followers before the ascension.
How I would love to have heard what Jesus spoke to them during those 40 days! Can you imagine the awe His followers must have felt to see the wounds on His body and understand He'd returned to life? I think I'd be hanging on His every word, never letting Him out of my sight, asking every question I had in my heart so I could hear His answer. In my opinion, one of the best evidences that His followers had truly seen Him alive after the crucifixion is that they were then so willing to die for what they believed to be true.

Here's just a little more about the guards. Matthew 28:11-15 adds the following:

...Some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, "You are to say, 'His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.' If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble." So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed...

Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: IvyLeague] #714549
05/08/13 05:55 AM
05/08/13 05:55 AM
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Danito Offline OP
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Original geschrieben von: IvyLeague
as well as ate food, to show that He was not a spirit only, but had a physical resurrected body.


Does that mean he needed food? Was he hungry? Could he die of hunger? Could he, has a physically resurrected person, die at all?

Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: Danito] #714564
05/08/13 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: Danito
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
as well as ate food, to show that He was not a spirit only, but had a physical resurrected body.


Does that mean he needed food? Was he hungry? Could he die of hunger? Could he, has a physically resurrected person, die at all?

Sharing food was considered the ultimate act of kinship at that time. It's where we get the expression "to break bread with someone." It was a gesture of love that Jesus would sit and eat with His followers at that point. Jesus could no longer die at that point. When He rose, death was already conquered for all time. So no, He didn't need food, and He couldn't have died from hunger. To sit and "break bread" with His people was an act of love. Just like everything else He did.


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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: pizzaboy] #714567
05/08/13 10:43 AM
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In one of the accounts of the Historical Jesus, a book called James the Brother Of Jesus, the author posits that after the Ressurection the apostles intended to remain Jewish, and preach that Jesus was the Messiah. When Paul had his conversion, he saw his mission as spreading christianity to the gentiles as well. According to the book, James and Paul actually met and struck a deal which allowed for inclusion of the Gentiles, which was the cornerstone of what we now know as "Christianity."


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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: Danito] #714585
05/08/13 11:42 AM
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Jesus appears in the upper room.

James: Jesus, Jesus. You're alive. You really did rise from the dead (the Apostles rush him. Hugs and kisses all around)

Jesus: I told you I would.

James: Are you okay? Are you Hungry? How about some loaves and fishes?

Jesus: Umm. Chinese. Chinese.


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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: pizzaboy] #714606
05/08/13 01:25 PM
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Original geschrieben von: pizzaboy
Original geschrieben von: Danito
Original geschrieben von: IvyLeague
as well as ate food, to show that He was not a spirit only, but had a physical resurrected body.


Does that mean he needed food? Was he hungry? Could he die of hunger? Could he, has a physically resurrected person, die at all?

Sharing food was considered the ultimate act of kinship at that time. It's where we get the expression "to break bread with someone." It was a gesture of love that Jesus would sit and eat with His followers at that point. Jesus could no longer die at that point. When He rose, death was already conquered for all time. So no, He didn't need food, and He couldn't have died from hunger. To sit and "break bread" with His people was an act of love. Just like everything else He did.


Yes, I understand that its symbolic meaning as an act of love.
But does that mean he actually physically ate? And if so, did his physiological functions that are related to eating (bloodstream, digestion, etc.) still work? Is there an official opinion about that? And would he be able to eat right now?
(Sorry, if all this sounds naive.

Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: Danito] #714630
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Jesus was both man and God. He manifested characteristics of both during his life and after his resurrection.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: Danito] #714671
05/08/13 04:41 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
In one of the accounts of the Historical Jesus, a book called James the Brother Of Jesus, the author posits that after the Ressurection the apostles intended to remain Jewish, and preach that Jesus was the Messiah. When Paul had his conversion, he saw his mission as spreading christianity to the gentiles as well. According to the book, James and Paul actually met and struck a deal which allowed for inclusion of the Gentiles, which was the cornerstone of what we now know as "Christianity."


One of the problems the Apostles encountered was people who wanted to become Christians but retain certain Jewish beliefs and practices. But, as Christ taught, you can't put new wine in old bottles. Now, this is not to say that they were required to throw everything out the window. Simply those things that were no longer needed, i.e. those things that were now done away with Christ fulfilling the law.

As for carrying the Gospel to the Gentiles, that revelation (in Acts chapter 10) came first through Peter, who was the head of the church. It was his prerogative to receive revelation for the church as a whole; though it had to be sustained by the other Apostles.

Regarding the Historical Jesus, I've found over time that it's rather dangerous to subscribe to many things written by secular scholars. Whatever credentials they have, they often seem to have the least understanding of the scriptures. Many of them not believers at all. Contrary to this aiding them, it's very much a hindrance to them. The scriptures are understood by both study and faith, and the latter is often not present with them.

Originally Posted By: Danito
Yes, I understand that its symbolic meaning as an act of love.
But does that mean he actually physically ate? And if so, did his physiological functions that are related to eating (bloodstream, digestion, etc.) still work? Is there an official opinion about that? And would he be able to eat right now?
(Sorry, if all this sounds naive.


It depends on who's "official opinion" you're asking. You'll get at least slightly different answers from one Christian or another. According to LDS belief, Christ's resurrected body is exactly like the Father's. It's a glorified, perfected, physical body of flesh and bone; as tangible as man's. There is no blood, which is part of being mortal. Being resurrected, His body and spirit are now combined eternally and can never be separated - which is the cause of death. But He can eat, as He showed when He appeared to the Apostles.

Last edited by IvyLeague; 05/08/13 04:45 PM.

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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: olivant] #715229
05/11/13 09:37 PM
05/11/13 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Jesus appears in the upper room.

James: Jesus, Jesus. You're alive. You really did rise from the dead (the Apostles rush him. Hugs and kisses all around)

Jesus: I told you I would.

James: Are you okay? Are you Hungry? How about some loaves and fishes?

Jesus: Umm. Chinese. Chinese.


Oh No... frown

Last edited by fathersson; 05/11/13 09:42 PM.

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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body [Re: ThePolakVet] #716113
05/18/13 03:33 AM
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Agreed 100%. The Bible was written by men 70 years after Christ had died.


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