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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: Danito]
#713708
05/02/13 11:09 PM
05/02/13 11:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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According to LDS doctrine, upon resurrection, the body and spirit is permanently reunited and cannot be separated again, since that is what causes death. Once Christ took up His body again, in it's perfected and glorified form, He had it - has it - forever. He is a physical Being, with a body of flesh and bones (but not blood), in the form of a man, like His Father. But the Holy Ghost is a spirit, in the form of a man.
And, yes, heaven (if by that, you mean where God resides) is a physical place. Though it obviously also entails a state of being.
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: IvyLeague]
#714453
05/07/13 02:52 PM
05/07/13 02:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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He got up and was never seen again. Olivant i don't mean any disrespect but do actually believe what you have just wrote.. To much for me. If we're going by just the Bible record alone, Christ was seen by hundreds after the resurrection and prior to the ascension into heaven. Forgive my lack of Bible knowledge, but I thought only a few people saw Jesus after the Resurrection, I thought it was just some of the disciples. Also I seem to recall in most of the post resurrection stories, he sort of "appears." I know in one of them they don't even recognize him at first, all of which hints that he came back as a spirit...which I understand is not the teaching of the church. If anyone can help me out on this it would be appreciated. As for the main question, the theology is that he physically rose into heaven, which does make it a place. BTW according to Roman Catholic teaching Mary also physically rose into heaven, so there are two "people" there.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: dontomasso]
#714465
05/07/13 03:50 PM
05/07/13 03:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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Forgive my lack of Bible knowledge, but I thought only a few people saw Jesus after the Resurrection, I thought it was just some of the disciples.
I can't quote or cite the verses off-hand, but the New Testament contains references that Jesus appeared to hundreds, including scores of people at one time. Others here might be able to fill in details without having to research. The appearance that is most fascinating to me is that of St. Paul, without whom Christianity wouldn't exist. He was among the fiercest persecutors of Christianity as the movement began, and yet overnight he became the Church's most prominent evangelist. Putting aside whether the resurrected Jesus actually appeared to him, there is no earthly or logical reason why this conversion took place. Paul (Saul of Tarsus) was an extremely intelligent, well educated and prominent Pharisee, and by he forfeited any prominence to follow the movement that so zealously persecuted. Not only that, he became the central figure for the growing movement There isn't even a close historical parallel for something like this ever happening before or since. I'm no theological expert, but always thought this was fascinating.
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: klydon1]
#714467
05/07/13 03:58 PM
05/07/13 03:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Putting aside whether the resurrected Jesus actually appeared to him, there is no earthly or logical reason why this conversion took place. Agreed. That, to me, is one of the things that makes Paul's story even more believeable and awe inspiring. Today it would be tantamount to the Grand Wizard of the KKK waking up one day a changed man, then going on Larry King with his arm around Al Sharpton and rebuking his old buddies.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: Danito]
#714468
05/07/13 04:02 PM
05/07/13 04:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
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An interesting thought on the body of Jesus is that when the disciples first proclaimed that Jesus rose from the dead, the Romans and Jewish high priests of the day shared a deep interest in putting an end to the claims. It is interesting to consider that if they at any time were able to produce a corpse of Jesus, Christianity would have been dead just as fast as it began. As such,there was surely an extensive investigation and search for the whereabouts of the body.
Also, both religious and historic references suggest that the tomb of Jesus had a Roman seal, and the penalty for breaking such a seal was usually death. I remember reading that the punishment would be administered to guards of a sea, which had been broken. If so, I've wondered whether the resurrection, if it had occurred as detailed in the gospels, resulted in the executions or arrests of innocent people.
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: dontomasso]
#714524
05/07/13 10:25 PM
05/07/13 10:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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Forgive my lack of Bible knowledge, but I thought only a few people saw Jesus after the Resurrection, I thought it was just some of the disciples. Also I seem to recall in most of the post resurrection stories, he sort of "appears." I know in one of them they don't even recognize him at first, all of which hints that he came back as a spirit...which I understand is not the teaching of the church. If anyone can help me out on this it would be appreciated. I think it's always been understood that the guards at the tomb were Roman "soldiers," as the text calls them. It was a result of the priests going back to Pilate in concern that Christ's followers would take His body. In Luke chapter 24, He appeared to 2 disciples but kept His identity from them. After He disappeared, they knew who He was. Of course, Christ later appeared to the apostles when they were in hiding. He had them feel the wounds in His hands, feet, and side, as well as ate food, to show that He was not a spirit only, but had a physical resurrected body. In 1 Corinthians chapter 15, Paul talks about how the risen Christ was "seen of over 500 brethren at once." And this was after He had already appeared to the remaining 11 apostles, plus the several of His female followers. People forget that Christ spent 40 days further teaching His followers before the ascension.
Last edited by IvyLeague; 05/07/13 10:28 PM.
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: IvyLeague]
#714539
05/08/13 12:30 AM
05/08/13 12:30 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 592 Chicago Underworld
Frank_Nitti
"The Enforcer"
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"The Enforcer"
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 592
Chicago Underworld
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People forget that Christ spent 40 days further teaching His followers before the ascension. How I would love to have heard what Jesus spoke to them during those 40 days! Can you imagine the awe His followers must have felt to see the wounds on His body and understand He'd returned to life? I think I'd be hanging on His every word, never letting Him out of my sight, asking every question I had in my heart so I could hear His answer. In my opinion, one of the best evidences that His followers had truly seen Him alive after the crucifixion is that they were then so willing to die for what they believed to be true. Here's just a little more about the guards. Matthew 28:11-15 adds the following: ...Some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, "You are to say, 'His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.' If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble." So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed...
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: Danito]
#714564
05/08/13 10:08 AM
05/08/13 10:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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as well as ate food, to show that He was not a spirit only, but had a physical resurrected body. Does that mean he needed food? Was he hungry? Could he die of hunger? Could he, has a physically resurrected person, die at all? Sharing food was considered the ultimate act of kinship at that time. It's where we get the expression "to break bread with someone." It was a gesture of love that Jesus would sit and eat with His followers at that point. Jesus could no longer die at that point. When He rose, death was already conquered for all time. So no, He didn't need food, and He couldn't have died from hunger. To sit and "break bread" with His people was an act of love. Just like everything else He did.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: pizzaboy]
#714567
05/08/13 10:43 AM
05/08/13 10:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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In one of the accounts of the Historical Jesus, a book called James the Brother Of Jesus, the author posits that after the Ressurection the apostles intended to remain Jewish, and preach that Jesus was the Messiah. When Paul had his conversion, he saw his mission as spreading christianity to the gentiles as well. According to the book, James and Paul actually met and struck a deal which allowed for inclusion of the Gentiles, which was the cornerstone of what we now know as "Christianity."
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: pizzaboy]
#714606
05/08/13 01:25 PM
05/08/13 01:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718 Berlin, Germany
Danito
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
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as well as ate food, to show that He was not a spirit only, but had a physical resurrected body. Does that mean he needed food? Was he hungry? Could he die of hunger? Could he, has a physically resurrected person, die at all? Sharing food was considered the ultimate act of kinship at that time. It's where we get the expression "to break bread with someone." It was a gesture of love that Jesus would sit and eat with His followers at that point. Jesus could no longer die at that point. When He rose, death was already conquered for all time. So no, He didn't need food, and He couldn't have died from hunger. To sit and "break bread" with His people was an act of love. Just like everything else He did. Yes, I understand that its symbolic meaning as an act of love. But does that mean he actually physically ate? And if so, did his physiological functions that are related to eating (bloodstream, digestion, etc.) still work? Is there an official opinion about that? And would he be able to eat right now? (Sorry, if all this sounds naive.
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: Danito]
#714671
05/08/13 04:41 PM
05/08/13 04:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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In one of the accounts of the Historical Jesus, a book called James the Brother Of Jesus, the author posits that after the Ressurection the apostles intended to remain Jewish, and preach that Jesus was the Messiah. When Paul had his conversion, he saw his mission as spreading christianity to the gentiles as well. According to the book, James and Paul actually met and struck a deal which allowed for inclusion of the Gentiles, which was the cornerstone of what we now know as "Christianity." One of the problems the Apostles encountered was people who wanted to become Christians but retain certain Jewish beliefs and practices. But, as Christ taught, you can't put new wine in old bottles. Now, this is not to say that they were required to throw everything out the window. Simply those things that were no longer needed, i.e. those things that were now done away with Christ fulfilling the law. As for carrying the Gospel to the Gentiles, that revelation (in Acts chapter 10) came first through Peter, who was the head of the church. It was his prerogative to receive revelation for the church as a whole; though it had to be sustained by the other Apostles. Regarding the Historical Jesus, I've found over time that it's rather dangerous to subscribe to many things written by secular scholars. Whatever credentials they have, they often seem to have the least understanding of the scriptures. Many of them not believers at all. Contrary to this aiding them, it's very much a hindrance to them. The scriptures are understood by both study and faith, and the latter is often not present with them. Yes, I understand that its symbolic meaning as an act of love. But does that mean he actually physically ate? And if so, did his physiological functions that are related to eating (bloodstream, digestion, etc.) still work? Is there an official opinion about that? And would he be able to eat right now? (Sorry, if all this sounds naive. It depends on who's "official opinion" you're asking. You'll get at least slightly different answers from one Christian or another. According to LDS belief, Christ's resurrected body is exactly like the Father's. It's a glorified, perfected, physical body of flesh and bone; as tangible as man's. There is no blood, which is part of being mortal. Being resurrected, His body and spirit are now combined eternally and can never be separated - which is the cause of death. But He can eat, as He showed when He appeared to the Apostles.
Last edited by IvyLeague; 05/08/13 04:45 PM.
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Re: Theological question about Jesus' body
[Re: olivant]
#715229
05/11/13 09:37 PM
05/11/13 09:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,595
fathersson
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,595
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Jesus appears in the upper room.
James: Jesus, Jesus. You're alive. You really did rise from the dead (the Apostles rush him. Hugs and kisses all around)
Jesus: I told you I would.
James: Are you okay? Are you Hungry? How about some loaves and fishes?
Jesus: Umm. Chinese. Chinese. Oh No... 
Last edited by fathersson; 05/11/13 09:42 PM.
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