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Re: Joe Colombo shooting
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#746393
10/30/13 01:57 PM
10/30/13 01:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
Capo
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Capo
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I'm surprised that the most popular answer on this poll has Joe Gallo working together with the commission. To me, this is not a realistic scenario for a few reasons:
1. Carlo already owed appreciation to Gallo and Colombo for the Anastasia murder and Bonanno plot, respectively. So, I don't see a motive strong enough for Gambino to whack Colombo or double cross Gallo.
2. If Gallo and Gambino teamed up to clip Colombo, then Gallo got screwed again- he was already screwed a couple of times by Profaci and Persico. Common sense dictates that Gallo would have been absolutely certain of his spoils if he whacked Colombo. The Carlo Gambino led commission had the authority to put their approved choices into the don's role- shown by Joe Colombo, Gaspar DiGregorio, Funzi Tieri, Rusty Rastelli, etc... and they didn't.
3. The Colombo family put out an open contract on Gallo's head. Carlo could have saved Gallo, but chose not to.
4. Gallo didn't declare war on Gambino and the commission. This indicates he didn't have a deal with them. Certain defeat at the hands of the commission wouldn't have prevented Gallo from starting a war, he was fearless.
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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Re: Joe Colombo shooting
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#746413
10/30/13 03:32 PM
10/30/13 03:32 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,525
Lou_Para
Underboss
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Posts: 1,525
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The attention that the League was bringing to the Mob was more than just an annoyance.The FBI stepped up the heat,and all five Families were subject to constant pressure. Gambino had put the word out after the first Unity Day celebration that attendance at a second one would not be appreciated, and indeed the turnout was much less than expected. Despite some "friendly"advice from Gambino,Joe went ahead with the event.
Besides the negative attention,Colombo had been whacking up the donation money with the other bosses,and he was found in possession of a paper with Gambino's name on it along with a sum of money. Colombo's explanation was that it was "money that Carlo had raised selling tickets for the League" This was a final straw for Carlo,and Joe's fate was sealed. Although Gambino was at the peak of his power,I'm sure he went through the process,and made a formal case to the Commission for the hit. Columbo's activities had gotten out of hand and would have put a major dent in the Mafia's earning power due to the Law Enforcement firestorm that would continue to be unleashed.
The Families would have nothing to gain and everything to lose by allowing the League to continue.
Last edited by Lou_Para; 10/30/13 03:37 PM.
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Re: Joe Colombo shooting
[Re: littlemango]
#746455
10/30/13 08:49 PM
10/30/13 08:49 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,525
Lou_Para
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If it were Gambino because he was upset over all the attention, why would he have colombo shot in public during a speech of all places? Wouldn't that only service to bring even more attention?
Also, I thought it was proven that the gallo boys weren't part of the anastasia hit. I thought they found a thumb print on the getaway car from joe biondo and it's assumed it was other gambino's who did the shooting? The attention that Gambino was concerned with wasn't attention in the publicity sense,but rather attention in terms of Law Enforcement being all over the mob like white on rice. The public slaying served a two fold purpose. First,it sent a message that anyone in the mob would understand,namely that this Civil Rights B.S. was going to end,and that the Commission was behind that decision.Secondly,it was an acknowledgement to Law Enforcement(FBI)that Columbo was a loose cannon and that his harrassment of them was not sanctioned by the Mafia as a whole. The location of the killing left no doubt in anyone's mind as to the reason for it.
Last edited by Lou_Para; 10/30/13 08:50 PM.
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Re: Joe Colombo shooting
[Re: LittleMan]
#746484
10/31/13 06:16 AM
10/31/13 06:16 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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I'm surprised that the most popular answer on this poll has Joe Gallo working together with the commission. The most voted answer is Gallo and Gambino, not Gallo and the Commission. 1Carlo already owed appreciation to Gallo and Colombo for the Anastasia murder and Bonanno plot Gallo being the hitman who murdered Anastasia is probably nothing more than a myth. It is far more likely that Gambino used his own men to murder Anastasia, not an outsider from a rival family. And besides, Gallo wasn't the only one who had made this claim.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: Joe Colombo shooting
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#746575
10/31/13 01:42 PM
10/31/13 01:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
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Capo
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The most voted answer is Gallo and Gambino, not Gallo and the Commission.
Yes, you are correct. I meant to say Gallo and Gambino.....with the idea that Gambino was more or less speaking for the commission. I believe that Carlo respected the concept of the commission and wouldn't have whacked Colombo without a vote. Yes, I understand the irony of that sentence since Carlo received his seat by participating in a hit on his boss. Joe Bonanno feels the hit was unsanctioned, but the commission likely had the votes without Bonanno. Gallo being the hitman who murdered Anastasia is probably nothing more than a myth. It is far more likely that Gambino used his own men to murder Anastasia, not an outsider from a rival family. And besides, Gallo wasn't the only one who had made this claim.
Probably worthy of another poll, similar to this one. Can we agree that it was a group effort between Genovese, Gambino, Trafficante, and Lansky? You make a good point about " not an outsider from a rival family" While I believed the gunmen were Gallo and Persico, I can't come up with a motive for the Profaci family (Colombos) to be involved to that extent. Unlike with the other mobsters, there wasn't an obvious beef between Anastasia and Profaci. So now you got me rethinking who the gunmen were....
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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Re: Joe Colombo shooting
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#746586
10/31/13 02:19 PM
10/31/13 02:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 12 DC
NeimanMarxist
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 12
DC
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I'm skeptical of Gambino and Gallo working together because Gallo must have resented the Commission blessing Colombo as the new head of the Profaci family after Gallo (with Gambino backing) had gone after Profaci. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice…
Also, if killing Colombo was about sending a message, why use an African-American shooter as well as a fictitious black liberation group (that was easily proved to be fake)? To me, it seems like the cover for the shooting was put together pretty haphazardly, indicating a shoot-from-the-hip Gallo operation rather than a well-organized Gambino ploy.
I'm also not totally opposed to the notion of Johnson working alone, although his motive could be anything and everything. But I'm partial to the notion that he preferred going out as the killer of a Mafia boss than continuing living as a nobody bottom-feeder.
“‘Remember when’ is the lowest form of conversation.” - Tony Soprano
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Re: Joe Colombo shooting
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#746720
11/01/13 12:40 PM
11/01/13 12:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 21
JoeBuster
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 21
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The best explanation of what went on with the Joe Colombo hit was in a book called "Joey, portrait of a Mafia Hit man" it was written in the mid 1970s. Joey knew both Colombo and Gallo and accordingly to his version, Carlo Gambino the puppet master got tired of Colombo ignoring his request to lay low and stop antagonizing the FBI and used Joey Gallo to take Joe Colombo out. Both of them were a pain the ass to Gambino. After Joe Colombo was shot and disabled, Don Carlo stepped away from Joey Gallo and looked the other way when the Colombo’s went gunning for him. A master chess move that neither one saw coming
Don Corleone, I'm gonna leave you now, because I know you are busy.
Sonny: Mickey Mantle? That's what you're upset about? Mantle makes $100,000 a year. How much does your father make? If your dad ever can't pay the rent and needs money, go ask Mickey Mantle. See what happens. Mickey Mantle don't care about you. Why care about him?
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Re: Joe Colombo shooting
[Re: JoeBuster]
#746770
11/01/13 04:47 PM
11/01/13 04:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 727 Northumberland England
GaryH
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Underboss
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Posts: 727
Northumberland England
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The best explanation of what went on with the Joe Colombo hit was in a book called "Joey, portrait of a Mafia Hit man" it was written in the mid 1970s. Joey knew both Colombo and Gallo and accordingly to his version, Carlo Gambino the puppet master got tired of Colombo ignoring his request to lay low and stop antagonizing the FBI and used Joey Gallo to take Joe Colombo out. Both of them were a pain the ass to Gambino. After Joe Colombo was shot and disabled, Don Carlo stepped away from Joey Gallo and looked the other way when the Colombo’s went gunning for him. A master chess move that neither one saw coming What you just wrote is Don Carlo down to a T. He would be the person to mastermind the plot to get rid of two trouble making pain in the asses.
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Re: Joe Colombo shooting
[Re: JoeBuster]
#746775
11/01/13 05:07 PM
11/01/13 05:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
Capo
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Capo
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Posts: 486
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It definitely seems that it was a collaboration between Genovese and Gambino, but I wonder what relatively small potatoes Lansky and Trafficante would've added to this conspiracy.
You make a good point. While nearly every source states that both Genovese and Gambino were behind Anastasia's death....Lansky and Trafficante's involvement are occasionally mentioned. Anastasia was trying to muscle into Havana- Lansky and Trafficante's domain. According to a book I read (I believe it was TJ English's Havana Nocturne), Anastasia was actually in the process of building a hotel/casino there. Lansky considered Cuba his domain and warned Albert to stay out of Cuba- and was ignored. Trafficante stayed at the Park Sheraton hotel, which was where the barbershop was located. He checked out the morning of the shooting and immediately left town. Like Lansky, his motive was to keep Anastasia from muscling in on his Havana operations. Coincidence or was he in town to discuss Anastasia's murder? This was in the Biography channel's Mobsters episode of Santo Trafficante, Jr. The best explanation of what went on with the Joe Colombo hit was in a book called "Joey, portrait of a Mafia Hit man" it was written in the mid 1970s. Joey knew both Colombo and Gallo and accordingly to his version, Carlo Gambino the puppet master got tired of Colombo ignoring his request to lay low and stop antagonizing the FBI and used Joey Gallo to take Joe Colombo out. Both of them were a pain the ass to Gambino. After Joe Colombo was shot and disabled, Don Carlo stepped away from Joey Gallo and looked the other way when the Colombo’s went gunning for him. A master chess move that neither one saw coming Excellent book, not very many people have read it. I'm just not sure how much of what Joey wrote was reliable, versus unsubstantiated rumors and gossip among the lower ranking mobsters. Here's an interesting story from that book: Joey was a hitman, and he was approached by Genovese's people to whack Meyer Lansky. He declined the contract. Shortly afterward, he was ambushed and shot multiple times, it was implied it was due to refusing the contract. He survived and warned Lansky that he was in danger. Meyer paid Joey's hospital bills, out of appreciation, and gave him a safe hideout where he could heal. My guess is that this was shortly before Lansky recruited Nelson Cantellops to frame Genovese.
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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Re: Joe Colombo shooting
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#746796
11/01/13 07:50 PM
11/01/13 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 380 In a wide open city
Tony_Pro
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 380
In a wide open city
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Like Lansky, his motive was to keep Anastasia from muscling in on his Havana operations. Coincidence or was he in town to discuss Anastasia's murder? This was in the Biography channel's Mobsters episode of Santo Trafficante, Jr. Would Santo be dumb enough to be at the scene of a very public execution a couple of hours before it happened? I'd doubt it if he had foreknowledge of the hit. If you include Lansky and Santo in on the hit; then you have Genovese, Gambino the Gallos and two other people all plotting and having to have lower ranking people "in the know" to act as "buffers" between the bosses and the Gallos, carrying messages back and forth. That's a lot of people to have that knowledge and not have it leak out like Bonanno's grand schemes. As for Jerome Johnson, there's a lot of knuckleheads who are dumb enough to take huge risks when big shots come around telling them that they'd set them up for life "for one little job". Perhaps they contacted him through one of the old Genovese heroin rings operating in Harlem? Joe Gallo wasn't the only mafia member to deal with blacks. One reason I think they used a person not well connected to cosa nostra is that they knew that no shooter was going to get out of Columbus Circle alive and that an experienced mafia member/associate wouldn't go on that kind of suicide mission. They might have told Johnson that they'd have people in the crowd covering him so he could escape in chaos.
Last edited by Tony_Pro; 11/01/13 08:00 PM.
This life of ours, this is a wonderful life. If you can get through life like this, hey, thats great. But it's very, very unpredictable. There are so many ways you can screw it up.-Paul Castellano (he would know)
"I'm not talking about Italians, I'm talking about criminals."-Joe Valachi
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