Roth seems to be stalling for time in killing Michael, and it seems logical that his only reason for stalling would be to get the 2 million before killing Michael. I mean, why not just have Michael popped as he stopped off the airplane? Or whenever they met alone?

I'd think Roth was a multimillionaire, perhaps even a billionaire...Why was he so eager for Michael's 2 mil that he was willing to wait to get it before taking Michael out?

There are two reasons I can think of that might explain it:

1)Two million bucks was a lot of money in the Fifties.

2)Roth didn't want to risk his own money with the uncertainty of the political climate.

Also, generally speaking ,I think most mob guys will avoid using their own money whenever possible.

These guys make a living stealing money.

Roth was a guy who always wanted his cake and eat it too. "Smaller slice."

The $2 million started as a charade:

Michael had been horning in on Roth's gaming holdings since he returned from Sicily. So, Roth strung him along until he found an opportunity to kill Michael. So,in their early negotiations about Cuba, Roth told Michael that he'd need to bribe Batista to the tune of $2 million--it was just a way for Roth to build credibility for his "plan" to "turn over his Havana holdings" to Micahel, and to string Michael along. As we saw, an opportunity to kill Michael dropped into Roth's lap at Anthony's party. Had the attack succeeded, Roth wouldn't have gotten his $2 million--but so what? He'd have gotten rid of Michael.

But after the Tahoe failure, Roth went to Plan B: Lure Michael to Havana, get the $2 million--and have him whacked. I'm guessing that the $2 million by that time would have been Roth's payment to Batista to get rid of Michael. In effect, he wanted Michael to pay for his own assassination.

And, why not have Michael popped when he got off the plane? Roth needed an alibi in case Rocco, Neri or Tom came after him. Hence the birthday party, where he pledged to turn over his Havana holdings to Michael ("What, me kill Michael? Why, the kid was like a son to me--just ask anyone at my birthday party!") Having Michael killed in a military car on his way back to his hotel would have been perfect: Batista's goons would have attacked the car with military-type weapons, to make it look like the car got caught by Castro's guerillas--and poor innocent gringo Michael was an unfortunate victim.

Yes TB, except Michael knew all along that Roth planned to kill him. He told this to Frankie Five Angels, and inexplicably he told Fredo as well. IF he knew the two million was a ruse, and if he knew he risked losing it (as he did but due to unforseen consequences) why bring it to the island at all? I mean Fredo could have had a locked briefcase full of stage money. Michael could have told Fredo he wanted to go into another room to unlock it and see if the money was there, and then confirmed he had it. Fredo was the conduit to Roth who knew the money had not come, and then that it had, so since Michael was going to wack Roth himself, he never needed to bring any real money to Cuba at all.

dt, you've hit on two of the Great Mysteries of GFII: 1) Why did Michael tell Fredo he was going to whack Roth when he didn't need Fredo to do anything and had told Tom that Fredo was "weak and stupid"; and 2) Since he knew Roth was planning to whack him, why did Michael have Fredo bring the $2 million to Cuba?

I've thought about 1) a million times and can't come up with an explanation. As for 2): it was incredibly dangerous to bring the $2 million to Cuba, but I'm guessing he did it to keep stringing Roth along to find out who the traitor was in his family. A big stretch: Maybe Michael wanted Batista to know he was willing to pay him off to become the Top Gringo in Havana after he whacked Roth and the dust settled.

On 1, we'll never know. Its ike "Who opened the drapes."

On 2 I dont see why Michael could not have done something or other to make Roth think the money was there as a part of his overall scheme to kill Roth. By the time the money arrived, Michael already had his doubts about Batista's survival.

It's quite simple, actually; he was testing Fredo & looking for his response. Also, he might have tricked Fredo into tipping Roth off, which is what happened, and thereby confirming he was the traitor. The moment Fredo arrived in the Capri hotel, you could see that Michael was already suspicious.

Sonny, the inexplicable part of that entire Fredo/Michael interplay in Havana was that Michael did seem suspicious of Fredo twice--in the hotel room and at the Yolanda show. That's why I can't understand why he told Fredo, outright, that "Hyman Roth will never see the New Year."



What would he have gained by tricking Fredo into tipping Roth off? Michael had an absolute need to keep stringing Roth along to the very end in order to find out who the traitor was in his family. If Fredo had tipped off Roth, Roth would have had Michael whacked immediately. There's no evidence, in their last scene together, that Roth knew Michael's plan--he was still after that $2 million.

As you've said yourself, Michael was overly confident when he went to Cuba, taking only an elderly bodyguard with him. So he probably would have been confident enough to believe he could take Roth out at any given time. I believe it was more important for Michael to first find out who the traitor was than taking out Roth.

And they couldn't have just taken Michael out. He needed to be lured into a false sense of security first and make it seem like an accident, but Michael was already a step ahead.

Michael wasn't overconfident. In fact, he took a risk in bringing only the bodyguard with him to Cuba, but it was part of his plan to make Roth feel "relaxed." He was sending Roth a message: He didn't bring Rocco and/or Neri because he still didn't know who was behind the Tahoe attack. With Roth "relaxed," Roth thought he still had a chance to get the $2 million from Michael. As long as he thought that, Michael was safe.

You'll have to be fully confident to make that work. Michael evidently kept his nerves througout the entire time he was in Cuba, even when the situation became very tense when Roth became suspicious and irritated after not receiving the 2 million. In fact, Michael was in control of the situation.

I'm not so sure there was no evidence that Roth knew Michael may have had a plan to kill him. In their last scene together, as has been discussed elsewhere, there is this sense that both Roth and Michael believe only one of them is going to survive. Michael's opening gambit about "Who gave the order to have Pentangeli killed?" is met by Roth with pure rage. He goes off on that Moe Green rant and concludes by saying he never asked who gave the order (as if he didn't know). He tries to frme all this personal mistrust as "business," but when he says if the money is not on the table when he wakes from his nap he'll know he doesn't have a partner. Of course the money was never put on the table. Michael ordered the killlings of Roth and Ola from th Superman club after Fredo gave himself away for certain. I still maintain Roth knew Michael was going to kill him and that his getting himself out of the hotel and into the hospital was a way to make his whereabouts unknown just long enough for the assasssin not to succeed.

He got himself out of the hotel by having himself a stroke??

DT, I have to go with TB on this one.

He'd been dying of the same stroke for forty years. Its plausible. Don't forget he ordered that his personal doctor be flown in from Miami. When the Cuban doctor examined him he told him to rest at his hotel. Maybe he didn't trust doctors who can't speak english, but maybe his personal doctor would make whatever recommendation Roth desired. In the real world think of al the continuances Meyer Lansky got because of his health. The man died in his own bed.