Hi everyone. This is my first post. I found this board while doing research on Puzo. Anyway, I've been wondering how Tom Hagen would have fit into part III had Duvall accepted Coppola's offer. I can't think of a storyline that would have involved Hagen. Any thoughts?

Hi, Freddie C....welcome to our little club!!

The possibilities are endless had Duvall been offered the $$$ he deserved to be in GFIII. I am sure the basic plot involving The Vatican would've been the same, but with Hagen around there probably would've been much more interesting interpersonal stuff than what you see with his 'replacement' ... the George Hamilton character. After all, Hamilton was simply a hired advisor, but Hagen was family...and as with GFII, the interweaving and personal history between him and Michael would've filled a gap that Vincent, Mary, Anthony, and that hit lady played by Bridgette Fonda all together couldn't even begin to.

In short...who knows what kind've situations FFC and Puzo would've come up with. We can all make up storylines here, and that'll be lots of fun. But bottom line is with Hagen in there it probably would've been probably been a much better story, and a much better movie.

AppleOnYa

Apple

Even had the film remained exactly the same, but with Duvall playing the same (small) role as Hamilton, it would have been a better film.

At least Duvall can act. How they came up with George Hamilton, I'll never know

The 3 things I think would have saved, or at least made better, Part 3-
-An Italian for the role of Vinnie. Ray Liotta or someone like that.
-A nice italian girl WHO COULD ACT!!!!!
- and finally Bobby Duvall as Tom Hagen.

i think duvall (hagen) would have been much better for godfather 3, i think the movie would have been more interesting, well for me it would because i liked the role of hagen, hamilton was kinda invisible, didn't have much to say, hagen was more involved.

For me, I would have liked to see how Tom's relationship with Michael has progressed. At the end of Part II, they are quite cool to each other and Tom shows some signs of disgust, especially in his scene with Frankie Five Angels where he remembers how the Corleone family once was. All in all, I would have moved heaven and earth to get Duvall in the film. It would have been immeasurably better with him in it.

There is no doubt in my mind that Robert Duvall playing Tom Hagen in Godfather Part III would have made it a much better film. Hagen would have made a big difference with the story line as it would be more about family.

Hi Freddie C. Welcome, and tell us about those cocktail waitresses. Was it really two at a time....? Nevermind.

Having Tom Hagen in the storyline would have opened up some possible subplots with his son, Fr. Andrew Hagen. Would Tom have tried to use his son for any inside info at the Vatican? Come to think of it, how did Andrew get "the calling." Were the Hagen's devout Catholics? setting a good example for young Andrew? Or did Andrew just pick it up on his own? We're never privvy to that storyline. Being in a family of crime almost makes Andrew's vocation seem implausible. Tom and Theresa must have kept him well insulated.

Mary Cas, you make great points about Andrew. He was able to get to work in Rome, but only with the intervention of a mob boss. He's supposed to be of "the pure faith" according to Michael, but I doubt it. If he were, he would have disassociated himself with the Corleones and even his father's legacy. Andrew is not so pure. Having Tom Hagen in the movie might have developed this more and Duvall was greatly missed.

Yeah I agree. Andrews" pure faith calling" seems a bit implausible under the circumstances.Maybe he was driven into the arms of the church in his quest to save his families souls the way Kay prayed for Michaels soul daily in the novel after her return to him

Duvall would have made the 3rd movie far better than could George Hamilton IMO. The storylines could have been more interesting with all the history between Michael and Tom making for better storylines or even as someone already said, even if the script remained the same with Tom it would have been better.

FH

When last we saw Hagen in GFII, he was at odds with Michael over Michael's plan to eliminate Pentangeli and Roth. But in III, Michael's the one who's trying to avoid violence. Perhaps if Hagen were in III, he'd be vindicated. Then we could have had a nice subplot with Hagen counseling Michael against bringing Vincent-- with his hot temper and his penchant for violence--into the Family.
Also at the end of II, we saw how Neri was trying to deposition Hagen to be Michael's #2 guy. If Hagen and Neri both survived into III, we could have had a seriously Machiavellian contest between the two of them.

I posted it in another thread, but IMO it's clear that at the end of GFII, Puzo and FFC were setting up the potential conflict between Michael and Hagen to be the main basis for GFIII.

My guess is that at the time, they were thinking in terms of doing GFIII in the fairly near future (3-6 years after GFII), and the dual plot line would have covered the earlier years of the Corleone Family (1928-40, based on the chapters of the original GF novel not covered in GFI and GFII) and then Michael's story in the 60s/70s.

My guess is based on the fact that GFIII is set from 1978-80, which was the time in real life when logically the next GF movie should have been made. I would guess that Puzo and FFC did the rough drafts of the storyline at that time, intending to bring the story of the Corleones right up to the 'present day,' but with the long delay before GFIII was actually made and the loss of Duvall from the cast, a number of changes had to be made.

2 points i´d absolutely subscribe.
i once read in the Godfather book by Peter Cowie that a possible GF III plot WITH Duvall in it would´ve involved a battle of wits between Mike and Tom on different sides, which intriGued me to no end. Tom was loyal to the Corleone family mostly due to Vito and Sonny, and with them Gone he could have moved aGainst Michael.

I would´ve liked to see Tom finally standinG up aGainst the family that has used him all this time (nooo offence aGainst Michael here, but imaGine that plotline!).

Of course he would´ve lost, but what a way to Go (heart attack! i beG you!)

BTW what did Tom do to deserve such a dull son?! i always thouGht Father Andrew was nothinG but a lame excuse for brinGinG back at least a little bit of Tom, but what a failure. while his dad was considerate and reserved, Andrew was nothinG but dull, dull, DULL. his father never was.

if they would´ve kept Tom the real deal, they could´ve saved the money on that little priest.

sorry, but i always meant to say this somewhere

i was so sad about the way they Gave us the kids in Part III

Turnbull, you said that Tom and Neri's machiavellian sides would show...could you explain what you meant by that?

what exaclty happened to Hagan, did he die of natural causes?