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Fredo and Roth's assassinations: 1959 or 1960? #723870
07/02/13 10:24 PM
07/02/13 10:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 151
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Mr_Willie_Cicci Offline OP
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Mr_Willie_Cicci  Offline OP
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Made Member
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Here's a chronology question:

Did Roth's and Fredo's murders occur in 1959, or in 1960? I ask due to Roth's mention of wanting to vote in the Presidential election...It just makes me wonder if it is 1960, when we made the jump to 1960.

Like, is the Senate hearing regarding Michael occurring in 1959 or 1960? How long was Fredo in hiding until Tom was able to bring him back?

Re: Fredo and Roth's assassinations: 1959 or 1960? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #723876
07/02/13 11:13 PM
07/02/13 11:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,611
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,611
AZ
Good question, Willie. And, BTW, thanks for posting all these good questions on this board! smile

Im pretty certain that Roth was killed in 1960 because, when interviewed at the Miami airport, he said he returned to America to "vote in the Presidential election." As for the others:
I infer that the Senate hearing was in 1959 because it came in the movie just after Michael returned to Tahoe. I also think that the Senate subcommittee would want to hold the hearings soon after they turned Frankie because that was a secret that wouldn't hold forever. But Fredo's murder came after Mama died--probably well after. No clue if she died in '59 or '60.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Fredo and Roth's assassinations: 1959 or 1960? [Re: Turnbull] #723938
07/03/13 12:28 PM
07/03/13 12:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Castro took power on Jan 1, 1959, and it was in the dead of winter when Michael got back to Tahoe. The hearings had to be in the spring or maybe sooner. TB is right that they would be expedited so that no one could learn about Frankie, and with Questeat on the case, he could have persuaded them to expedite things once Roth got word to him that Michael escaped Cuba unharmed. This would plae the boathouse scene in 1959. When Mama died, it was well settled that Kay had gone back to New Hampshire without the kids which is also when Connie decided to stay close to Michael. I would assume this could have been as long as a year..well into 1960. With mama out of the way it would have been in the summer or fall of 1960 that Michael's plan went into effect. I am trying to remember what the weather was like when Tom talked Frankie into committing suicide. It had to have been close to the time they got Roth, and the presidential campaign was in full swing right after Labor Day, so there ould have been a few month interval between the death of Mama and the comment by Roth about voting.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Fredo and Roth's assassinations: 1959 or 1960? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #723978
07/03/13 02:48 PM
07/03/13 02:48 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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I agree with what's been said. This is another timeline flaw, because according to the original dvd timeline Roth was killed in 1959, along with Fredo and Pentangeli. However on the Blu-ray extra's disc it is stated at Michael's profile that he ordered Roth's death in 1960, while ordering Fredo's death in 1959. Imo, the film ends in the fall of 1959 at the very earliest. Note that those Mafia hearings can progress very slowly, and take months at the very least. So even though those hearings likely started in the first half of 1959, there might have very well been months between Cicci's testimony and that of Pentangeli. Also, I don't think Roth would have made that public statement about not getting an absentee vote if it was a year before the actual election...


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Fredo and Roth's assassinations: 1959 or 1960? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #724129
07/04/13 12:48 PM
07/04/13 12:48 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Does anybody know wow much time there was between Valachi deciding to become a government witness and the Valachi hearings?

That might be a hint..


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Fredo and Roth's assassinations: 1959 or 1960? [Re: Sonny_Black] #724154
07/04/13 02:52 PM
07/04/13 02:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,611
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,611
AZ
Valachi killed a fellow prisoner in the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary on June 22, 1962. That was the event that led ultimately to his testimony before the McClellan Subcommittee in October 1963. That's a 16-month gap. Don't know when in that time period he agreed to turn rat.

Last edited by Turnbull; 07/04/13 02:53 PM.

Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Fredo and Roth's assassinations: 1959 or 1960? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #724167
07/04/13 04:19 PM
07/04/13 04:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Texas
The McClellan Select Committee was authorized by the Senate for a year in '57. Through extensions through '59 and its report was issued in March of '60. It was during its one year extension throughout '59 that Mafiosi were subpoenaed and appeared. If this is the committee represented in the film, then Michael appeared before it in '59.

Last edited by olivant; 07/04/13 04:20 PM.

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Re: Fredo and Roth's assassinations: 1959 or 1960? [Re: olivant] #724869
07/08/13 02:21 PM
07/08/13 02:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Although Frankie is based on Villachi and the hearings are based on the McClellan hearings, we have to understand these are metaphors, and we have to take all of this and put it into "Godfather time" whicn IMHO was 1959-60. As for the length of the hearings, don't forget they were cut chort when Frankie refused to testify/


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."


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