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Tattaglia in the Don's meeting
#737203
08/28/13 11:28 AM
08/28/13 11:28 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
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Underboss
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
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When Don Zaluchi begins his speech to the Dons about regulating the drug business, we see a shot of Tattaglia calling over his consigliere and whispering something to him.
While it's clear that FFC wanted us to see this, so it must have some significance, I have no idea what he would be saying.
Any guesses?
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: Tattaglia in the Don's meeting
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#741232
09/22/13 03:07 PM
09/22/13 03:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385 Tampa, FL
waynethegame
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Capo
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Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
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I always thought it was to show that Tattaglia is scummy and isn't really paying attention. He in part caused the war, and now when things are being discussed he's whispering to his henchman instead of caring what Zaluchi is saying. It kind of came off as a "Yeah, yeah, whatever. Let's get this over with" kind of vibe to me personally.
Wayne
"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger." Don Lucchesi
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Re: Tattaglia in the Don's meeting
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#741343
09/23/13 11:31 AM
09/23/13 11:31 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 113 MASS.
paddy78
Made Member
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Made Member
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yeah im with wayne, i dont wanna overthink it too much , this movie is filled w subtleties though
Southie (South Boston, Mass) my home town!!
Here to learn,lecture and have fun.
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Re: Tattaglia in the Don's meeting
[Re: waynethegame]
#741443
09/24/13 09:58 AM
09/24/13 09:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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I always thought it was to show that Tattaglia is scummy and isn't really paying attention. He in part caused the war, and now when things are being discussed he's whispering to his henchman instead of caring what Zaluchi is saying. It kind of came off as a "Yeah, yeah, whatever. Let's get this over with" kind of vibe to me personally. Maybe he was lining up hookers.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Tattaglia in the Don's meeting
[Re: dontomasso]
#744115
10/12/13 09:39 PM
10/12/13 09:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 380 In a wide open city
Tony_Pro
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In a wide open city
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I don't have the book in front of me, but I remember that in the passage that Zaluchi is speaking, Puzo writes that not only was Zaluchi a Corleone ally, he was also very old school and against the drug trade. Having Zaluchi starting off on accepting a compromise was taking the laying the groundwork for compromising on drug trade, yet at the same time Puzo writes that his speech was the rambling of an old man saying the obvious, because everyone present knew that the drug trade would have to be approved by the commission and regulated (no matter how meaningless that "regulation" meant, it was a sop to the old school Dons)
I don't think that Vito realized he'd have to give on drugs at the meeting. The minute he called the meeting everyone would have known he'd have to compromise on the drugs. Though the Tatt's were seriously weakened and at the end of their rope, Vito was still negotiating from a point of weakness. Luca and Sonny, the muscle of the family, were dead and he was trying to save Micheal's life. Vito had to give on something to avoid fatally weakening his family through continuing the war and everyone at the meeting knew it.
That's why Vito realized it was "Barzini all along" at the meeting, Barzini took charge as the "impartial" negotiator and settled terms for Tattaglia, something that Tattaglia should have been doing if he was at all competent. Showing Tattaglia conferring with his adviser helped illustrate that, his presence at the conference was a formality since he wasn't the one "pulling the strings".
Last edited by Tony_Pro; 10/12/13 09:47 PM.
This life of ours, this is a wonderful life. If you can get through life like this, hey, thats great. But it's very, very unpredictable. There are so many ways you can screw it up.-Paul Castellano (he would know)
"I'm not talking about Italians, I'm talking about criminals."-Joe Valachi
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Re: Tattaglia in the Don's meeting
[Re: olivant]
#791816
07/25/14 05:37 PM
07/25/14 05:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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True. But the drugs would be coming in through the Port of New York, and Sol and people would be operating out of New York. The novel states that Sol's concern was that "some of my couriers [emphasis added] will be caught over the years," and that he needed Vito to assure that they'd get light sentences. I infer that Sol was concerned only with the wholesale end of the business. By the time of the Commission meeting, the other Dons' appetite for the drugs trade seemed to be whetted because they'd be in the distribution business.
That begs a question: When Barz said, "The traffic in drugs will be allowed, and Don Corleone will give it protection in the East," did he mean Vito would protect the importation/wholesale end, as Sol had suggested, or the street distribution end--a much different, much bigger proposition?
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Tattaglia in the Don's meeting
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#793093
07/31/14 03:56 AM
07/31/14 03:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385 Tampa, FL
waynethegame
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Tampa, FL
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I'm pretty sure he knew. Maybe not the extent (since it was almost certain that if the assassination attempt had succeeded, Sollozzo and/or Tattaglia would have been scapegoats), but I'm sure that he knew that Barzini was backing it in some fashion.
Wayne
"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger." Don Lucchesi
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Re: Tattaglia in the Don's meeting
[Re: olivant]
#793280
07/31/14 03:13 PM
07/31/14 03:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385 Tampa, FL
waynethegame
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Tampa, FL
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I'm not so sure DT. Afterall, Vito's political and legal influence was very much in place and very much needed by the families in a whole lot of areas. Why would they consent to lose that influence (by Vito's murder) simply because Barzini and Tattaglia wanted to enter the drug trade? Both the movie and the book basically said that the other families would side against the Corleones only to avoid a war, so they weren't involved otherwise. Whether or not Sollozzo knew about Barzini is up in the air. I always inferred that Barzini knew from the start Don Corleone would refuse Sollozzo; by this point Barzini had dealt with Don Corleone for a while so he had to know that he was an old "Mustache Pete" and would be against drugs. He also would have had to know that Sollozzo wouldn't take a refusal lightly as it would interfere with him being able to make his own living, and being a "man of respect" he couldn't allow that. Of course at the time nobody knew that Sonny would have had his outburst. What I think happened is that Sollozzo approached Tattaglia to help with distribution (in the nightclubs and with the prostitutes, most likely), and Tattaglia introduced Sollozzo to Barzini; I'm guessing that Barzini was financing the operation or profiting from it in some other behind-the-scenes way, if for no other reason than to profit where the Corleone's wouldnt; remember Tom's advice that if the Corleones didn't get into it, the other families would and use that to grow their power. Now, I'd guess that Barzini had some kind of backup plan for when Sollozzo was refused, maybe trying to use whatever connections he had to help instead (which wouldn't be nearly as good as Don Corleone's, of course). However, Sollozzo likely mentioned to Tattaglia about Sonny's outburst, and this probably prompted Barzini to push the assassination attempt, since not only could he profit from drugs but he could usurp the power of his old enemy Corleone. My view, which I have stated before, is that Barzini was playing everybody as fools. If the assassination attempt succeeded, the Corleones would have lost half their power as Sonny struggled to hold what was left; like he says himself he couldn't just go after Sollozzo immediately without losing face, but would likely do it later on. In any event I'm sure Barzini would have feigned condolences to Sonny and offer his aid, likely throwing Sollozzo and even Tattaglia to the wolves; this would have let Barzini take over the Tattaglia's operations, as well as Sollozzo's, and coupled with the Corleone's lost power from Vito's death as well as the aftermath of a war against Tattaglia and Sollozzo, he's now the #1 guy and can mop up the Corleones. Even if the assassination failed (which it did of course), my guess is that Barzini's intention would be to do the same thing - sell out Tattaglia and Sollozzo, since nobody knows that he had any involvement since he's been a silent partner the whole time. The wrench in all the plans was Michael not being the patsy. Even after Michael killed Sollozzo, it was Barzini's goal to weaken the Corleones and then with the deal it would have been the same as before - he would have used the drug trade to help increase his own power and later on go after the Corleones again, since IIRC Vito being sick reduced their strength in some regard anyways. Now granted the above is speculation and opinion, but from reading the novel many times and watching the films likely more, that's how I think things were playing out behind the scenes.
Wayne
"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger." Don Lucchesi
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Re: Tattaglia in the Don's meeting
[Re: waynethegame]
#793322
07/31/14 05:27 PM
07/31/14 05:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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I also agree that Barzini was in it from the beginning but I come at it from a different direction than Wayne's:
Sol needed three things: to operate under the umbrella of an established NY family, working capital, and police and political protection. But he also had something to give: the money his partner made with him would make the partner stronger--perhaps strongest because of the profitability of drugs.
Any family could have given him the umbrella and maybe the working capital. But only Corleone could provide the police/political protection. And Corleone didn't need his profits because he was already Number One with businesses that were far less risky than drugs.
So, I believe, Sol went first to Barzini, who he recognized as younger and more ambitious than the other Dons, impatient to be Number One, and more needful of drugs profits. Barzini would have said, "Your logic is sound. But you still need Corleone's police/political protection. If you tell him I'm your partner, he'll say no. Go to Tattaglia--he's a pimp. Corleone isn't afraid of him. Tell Tatt and Vito anything you want. But I'll be your silent partner. And I'll have your back."
Barzini couldn't lose. If Vito said yes, Vito's capital and police/political protection would help make Barzini (through his partnership with Sol) stronger. If Vito said no, Sol would try to kill him. If he succeeded, Barzini would be Number One by default. If he failed, Vito and Sonny would come after Tatt.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Tattaglia in the Don's meeting
[Re: olivant]
#793626
08/02/14 10:44 AM
08/02/14 10:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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I know I am just poking holes into the storyline, but the corleone's influence seems to be fairly random. There was enough power for Tom to arrange for a "Jew Congressman" not in the local district to get Enzo the Baker's immigration papers, and enought for an informer to tell Santino the NYPD has a signout sheet which McCluskey used.
The fact that the police were able to clear out the hospital without anyone in the family learning of the plan in advance shows a lack of insider information, or perhaps a lack of thinking by Santino. Then again. Tom sure got that Writ ordering McCluskey out of the hospital and his people in, with a potential Show Cause Order in about ten minutes, and at night.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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