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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: LCN1987]
#747666
11/08/13 01:46 PM
11/08/13 01:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,009 Southeastern Massachusetts
JCB1977
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,009
Southeastern Massachusetts
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Agreed to a point...WE, the public, will NEVER know why things happened the way they did. I don't believe that any of us on this forum are in a position to "critique" why Castellano made the decisions he made. One thing I know that is a certainty: You live by the gun, you die by the gun. He was 76 when he got whacked, so I'd say that he had a "pretty damn good" career for a criminal. 50 plus years in the rackets, not many could say that. He accumulated wealth and did what a lot of bosses do not do...he invested his blood money into legitimate corporations and businesses and set his children, grandchildren and the next 3 generations up so they never had to live by the streets.
Of course he was greedy, like every Mafiosi. Guys don't make it to the top without ambition and greed. As far as hating John Gotti...Castellano was one of many. His biggest mistake? Not whacking him once his brother and Quack Quack got indicted. Due to his upcoming "Commission Case," he didn't want anymore headlines or headaches since he was already facing 100 years in the can. Gotti was about as respected by other bosses and families as Bobby Kennedy was when he was made AG by his brother. Most "street guys" don't make good bosses...It's the guys who see the biggest picture and focus on White Collar rackets as well as staying true to the rules. I will say that I believe Castellano was an ego-maniac, with his Staten Island Home and lavish lifestyle.
Last edited by JCB1977; 11/08/13 01:47 PM.
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: JCB1977]
#747753
11/09/13 11:15 AM
11/09/13 11:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6
Junior111
Associate
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Associate
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6
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Gotti IMO was taking out whoever he needed to in order to become boss. Gotti knew it was kill or be killed and he struck first. Keep in mind that Castellano was Sicilian and HATED the fact that Gotti was Neapolitan. As a first generation Italian, my famil is Calabrese and it amazes me how men in certain regions of Italy look at other men from a different region. Neapolitans are known for being "serpents" and the Sicilians never trusted the Neapolitans. Guys from Castellano and Gambino's generation took that stuff very seriously. And so does my father you can't just a neapolitan.
Cake,,,,,cake cake cake $500,000,000 I got me a lb cake
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: xs0u1x]
#748028
11/11/13 07:10 PM
11/11/13 07:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 83 pittsburgh
xs0u1x
OP
Button
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OP
Button
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 83
pittsburgh
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If gotti was such a moron.....why didn't anybody perform a coupe after the big paul hit? I know about the gaspipe attempt on his life that killed decicco....but was having the bull behind him really what kept everybody in line? or was he just a lightning rod?
I guess that could be phrased better.
Last edited by xs0u1x; 11/11/13 07:14 PM.
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: xs0u1x]
#748140
11/12/13 12:34 PM
11/12/13 12:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 366
LCN1987
Mannaggia alla miseria
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Mannaggia alla miseria
Capo
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 366
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If gotti was such a moron.....why didn't anybody perform a coupe after the big paul hit? I know about the gaspipe attempt on his life that killed decicco....but was having the bull behind him really what kept everybody in line? or was he just a lightning rod?
I guess that could be phrased better. He was well liked and respected. Feared, even. I think most people couldn't predict how big his ego was about to become and so they were loyal to him.
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: JCB1977]
#748512
11/14/13 03:34 PM
11/14/13 03:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 388
slumpy
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 388
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Agreed to a point...WE, the public, will NEVER know why things happened the way they did. I don't believe that any of us on this forum are in a position to "critique" why Castellano made the decisions he made. One thing I know that is a certainty: You live by the gun, you die by the gun. He was 76 when he got whacked, so I'd say that he had a "pretty damn good" career for a criminal. 50 plus years in the rackets, not many could say that. He accumulated wealth and did what a lot of bosses do not do...he invested his blood money into legitimate corporations and businesses and set his children, grandchildren and the next 3 generations up so they never had to live by the streets.
Of course he was greedy, like every Mafiosi. Guys don't make it to the top without ambition and greed. As far as hating John Gotti...Castellano was one of many. His biggest mistake? Not whacking him once his brother and Quack Quack got indicted. Due to his upcoming "Commission Case," he didn't want anymore headlines or headaches since he was already facing 100 years in the can. Gotti was about as respected by other bosses and families as Bobby Kennedy was when he was made AG by his brother. Most "street guys" don't make good bosses...It's the guys who see the biggest picture and focus on White Collar rackets as well as staying true to the rules. I will say that I believe Castellano was an ego-maniac, with his Staten Island Home and lavish lifestyle. was Bob Kennedy a poor attorney general? I had always understood that he played a pretty big role is dismantling some of the mafia hierarchy in NYC and elsewhere.
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: JCB1977]
#748527
11/14/13 04:25 PM
11/14/13 04:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,696
AZ
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We really need to clarify the myth of JFK and Giancana:
The myth starts with Joseph P. Kennedy, JFK’s father, who supposedly had ties with organized crime going back to Prohibition, when he was a major (illegal) importer and distributor of Scotch whiskey. He contacted Sam Giancana, or worked through Frank Sinatra, a friend of both Giancana’s and JFK’s, to solicit Mob money and union support to help his son win the West Virginia presidential primary, and to carry Illinois in the general election. In return, Kennedy promised that his son’s administration would keep hands off organized crime. Giancana agreed to help—and the Kennedy Administration, led by Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, declared war on the Mob. Another wrinkle: Giancana and JFK shared a mistress: Judith Campbell Exner, whom Sinatra had introduced to JKF before he became president. Later, Exner, terminally ill with cancer, alleged that JFK had impregnated her, and Giancana arranged for her to have an abortion. Therefore, Giancana ordered the assassination as revenge on the president. This myth is full of holes:
Joe Kennedy was not a rumrunner during Prohibition, nor was he Mob-connected. His father, Patrick J. Kennedy, operated saloons before Prohibition. At the beginning of the Franklin D. Roosevelt administration in 1933, Joe Kennedy and Jimmy Roosevelt, FDR’s son, formed Somerset Importers and acted as exclusive agents for several brands of Scotch whiskey and gin. They started business after Prohibition was repealed.
Sam Giancana had no motivation to help John F. Kennedy. In 1959, Giancana was humiliated by Robert Kennedy when he was subpoenaed to appear before a Senate subcommittee investigating labor racketeering. JFK was a ranking Democratic member and Robert Kennedy was chief counsel. After taking the Fifth Amendment in response to several of RFK’s questions, Giancana smiled and laughed. “I thought only little girls giggle, Mr. Giancana,” RFK taunted--not exactly the kind of remark aimed at getting Giancana's support for his brother's presidential campaign. That same hearing marked the beginning of a long-running feud between the Kennedy brothers and Jimmy Hoffa, whom JFK excoriated for “hiding behind the Fifth Amendment.” The Teamsters, one of the Chicago Outfit’s major allies and sources of income, endorsed Richard Nixon in the 1960 election. And, JFK didn’t need either Giancana’s or the Teamsters’ help in carrying Illinois because he’d been promised the state’s electoral votes by one of his strongest allies: Richard Daley, Chicago’s all-powerful mayor, who delivered Chicago’s vote late in the evening, allowing JFK to squeak by Nixon with a margin of fewer than 9,000 votes. As for Exner: Despite her late-life claims, there is no hard evidence that JFK had any relationship with Giancana through her, or that he even knew that he was sharing her with Giancana—until J. Edgar Hoover warned him that the FBI was aware that he had spoken to her by phone 70 times in two weeks, and that one of the calls had been made from Giancana’s home. Kennedy immediately dropped her.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: Turnbull]
#748562
11/15/13 01:34 AM
11/15/13 01:34 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
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Joe Kennedy was not a rumrunner during Prohibition, nor was he Mob-connected.
Among my friends, this has always been a debated topic. Half are convinced Joe had nothing to do with bootlegging. The other half believes he was definitely involved with bootlegging, plus he was known to many gangsters.
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: BigRed]
#748760
11/17/13 01:33 AM
11/17/13 01:33 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
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Besides Kennedy would've won even without Daley and his votes!
Correct! JFK won by over 80 electoral votes, while Illinois was only worth 27 at the time.
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: Dellacroce]
#782474
06/07/14 12:49 AM
06/07/14 12:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 250
night_timer
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 250
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Who ever said that the ganbinos thought big paul would flip?
That's what I read from more than one source. Who knows, maybe it was made up to justify the killing? I always thought that DeMeo was a capo because his crew was so feared. Thanks for the clarification.One of his biggest mistake was letting the feds bug his house. Who would think a paranoid mob boss would fall for a amateurish rouse like the FBI pulled to get in his home. He can thank Angelo Ruggiero for that- IIRC, his big mouth got the Feds permission to bug the White House. Quack Quack was a dead man- just a question if Castellano or Anthony Casso would get to him first. Cancer beat them both. ya np, Demeo was as a soldier in Nino Gaggi's crew, all the guys in the "demeo crew" were associates. Yeah, Demeo seemed he wasn't worried if his crew weren't Italians.
"It was all crap, right up to the moment he died" - an investigator's opinion - and epitaph - of John Holmes (Johnny Wadd)
"Drunk words are sober thoughts" - Anon.
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: Moe_Tilden]
#782814
06/08/14 08:38 PM
06/08/14 08:38 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
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There seems to be two different mindsets with these people.
Some probably wouldn't give a shit if the books were opened up to accept Irish and Jews; like Roy De Meo and Lucky Luciano.
And then there are those with a tribal attitude, like Vito Genovese, who whined about Luciano collaborating with all those Jews back in the olden days. Luciano and DeMeo worked with Jews. Where did you read that they wanted them as made members? Which mafia leaders have ever called for making people with no Italian heritage into the Mafia? Even guys like Veasey and Porter had Italian mothers.
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: JCrusher]
#782923
06/09/14 02:18 PM
06/09/14 02:18 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
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[quote=domwoods74]I dotn think Decicco or Gravano particularly liked Gottin. in fact they made a pact that they would ahve killed Gotti in a year if he didnt cut out the flamboyant bullshit. I guess Decicco's death saved Gotti's life That was sammy's story after he flipped. He seemed happy making all that money under gotti
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: mulberry]
#782927
06/09/14 02:38 PM
06/09/14 02:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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[quote=domwoods74]I dotn think Decicco or Gravano particularly liked Gottin. in fact they made a pact that they would ahve killed Gotti in a year if he didnt cut out the flamboyant bullshit. I guess Decicco's death saved Gotti's life That was sammy's story after he flipped. He seemed happy making all that money under gotti Yeah, it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback after you've already cut your deal with the government. That's the point I was trying to make with someone the other day. They were hating on D'Arco for his bravado in the Capeci book. But that's all of these guys who cut deals. They all make themselves out to be the balls and the brains of the operation when they sit down to write their books. The truth just wouldn't go over very well  .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: big paul's biggest mistake
[Re: xs0u1x]
#782973
06/09/14 05:43 PM
06/09/14 05:43 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722 Midwest
LittleNicky
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722
Midwest
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Buying that penile implant.
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
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