This debating over the ceremony is getting ridiculous. Do people seriously think the Outfit isn't 100% formal cosa nostra? The giancana wiretap was merely him speaking his mind, giving a personal opinion. Ricca, accardo, mooney, battaglia, alderisio, carlisi, difronzo, ferriola, etc etc etc etc, these are all HARDCORE 100% La Cosa Nostra people. The ceremony has always been practiced in Chicago & always will be. Not just during the O'Brien era.

Here's the FBI press release about Carparella, et.al. For those who are interested.

http://www.fbi.gov/chicago/press-release...ine-chicago-men

http://www.suntimes.com/20538198-761/sons-of-rahm-emanuels-top-union-ally-john-coli-also-rise.html

http://www.seiu1.org/2013/04/05/ohare-ja...cago-sun-times/


http://laborunionreport.com/2012/06/21/r...-moves-forward/

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-01-02/news/0501020397_1_teamsters-benefit-funds-dental

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-...on-member-union

Coli also represents the workers at Mcormick place which has been mobbed up for years, from nick Calabrese working there in the 80s to nick ferriola working there now


When John Coli was asked 4 years ago in a court disposition, how his family has maintained a dynasty going back 60 years in the teamsters
"coli replied for the record ,go fuck yourself"

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/05/05/obama-teamsters-deal-to-end-federal-oversight/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-union-pledge-raises-questions/

The wall street journal and cbs news reports that in return for winning Chicago with the teamster support of Hoffa and coli that Barack Obama , he's pushing the DOJ to end federal oversight of the teamsters intended to keep out mob corruption

The son of a made guy is one of the most powerful politicos in the united states
John coli got his job in the 80s because of the Chicago mob

I wonder how strong the case is against Caparelli and his guys. I mean I know they have guys who were wired up...

That's why I said some of these guys may not have gone through the ceremony years ago. I'm not convinced 100% that the Outfit didn't use it going back before the Aiuppa era. But there are other arguments that seem to suggest it wasn't used until later.



I meant that the FBI apparently consider both of them as "made," and the feds typically don't recognize a guy is made unless he's undergone the formal making ceremony. You'll notice that Joey Lombardo isn't listed in the Family Secrets indictment as a "made" member of the Chicago Outfit like Marcello and the Calabreses were. That wasn't an oversight.

I thought it was because of the newspaper ad he put out, lol.

Seriously though, thanks for everyone's input, I learn something new every day.

Same here. I learn something every day, even when some of you guys are arguing ! Wish I knew enough to debate with you.

Thanks Louiebynochi for the articles.

I think the point raised earlier that Capone was more or less cammorra which didn't have the making ceremony the sicilians did and capone's cammorra defeated Aiello's Unione Sicilione. I think it makes sense that Capone and his successors wouldn't think much about implementing the sicilian tradition of the making ceremony. The defacto head of the national commission, Luciano, didn't care much for the old traditions either so it's unlikely he would have encouraged chicago to start doing that.

When the sicilians loyalists in chicago eventually merged with capone's outfit, maybe at some point they curried enough favor in the organization to have a ceremony, but following the lineage of the hierarchy in the outfit, it seems unlikely they would have a ceremony.

...Accardo was from sicily so maybe he started the ceremony if there is/was one

Someone said Nick Calabrese said they had a ceremony like in the godfather movies, there were no making ceremonies in the godfather movies. is that what he was getting at?

It was Frank Calabrese Sr. and he was referencing the book.

I thought I read in Gus Russo's book The Outfit, that Giancana was caught on wire suggesting doing away with the ceremony Humphrey's said it gives the lower rank a meaning of being part of something and adds to the exclusivness of being a member of a secret society.

Anyone have a link to the Giancana wiretap? I've read it elsewhere, but would like to see it again.

EDIT: Btw the FBI vault is fantastic. Currently reading pages upon pages of Joey O files.

Here's one about Chuckie English. May not be what you're looking for, but it's one I saved. I'll check for more.


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=139578&relPageId=2

Another one. No particular order. I'll just post when I find them.

Enjoy

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=70719&relPageId=4

Scroll down to around 71 or 72. Some of these files have very little in them so you might want to skip down to around 71.

I'll keep looking and post when I find something in my files.


https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/docset/getList.do?docSetId=1217

Awesome thanks man.

Russo's treatment of the taps was odd. He seemed to maintain that the Outfit was aware of most of the taps yet continued to meet in the same places to discuss things regardless. I never understood that.

One of Humphreys relatives stated that the outfit suspected taps being placed in there meeting places and the outfit would make stories up for example the Action Jackson murder and embellish stories for the feds. I don't know how true that is because Jackson was murdered and even joking on a wire tap about something like that could get you arrested.

That's what I mean. He maintained that they knew the feds were tapping them and would even joke about it, but would then continue to meet and talk about things in the same places.

That's true, they did say that about the Jackson murder. He also said the real reason Jackson was murdered was because he was a rapist.

Who did they tap talking about that? Wasn't it Buccieri and Turk Torello?

I forget. Here's the bit about Russo's theory. If you go to the page the sourced stories might lead to more information:

"According to Gus Russo, author of The Outfit, there were Mob insiders who believed Jackson was killed for raping an imprisoned Mob-connected burglar's wife. Russo also states that Mrs. Humphreys, wife of Outfit fixer Murray "The Camel" Humphreys, asserted the conversation where the government learned about Jackson's fate was staged by mobsters who were aware that the government had planted a microphone. These possibilities have not been verified.[2][3][4][5]"

There are a few reasons given on why Jackson was killed. One is that he was a informant. The other is about the raping of an associates wife. Either way that guy went through hell when they killed him. Jackson was an associate of Sam Destefano so I wouldn't put it past Sam having him killed too.

one of those bugs "little al" was illegal

i'm sure with the syndicates connections they knew that so they didn't give a fuck

Actually at the time all the bugs the feds used were not permissable in court. They used them for there own ways to learn more about the Outfit.