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What's your take on Valachi ~ Rat or Survivor
#755253
12/24/13 04:32 AM
12/24/13 04:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 114
dgvc63
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I remember someone telling me once "Kid if you get the right kind of pressure you can't trust anyone." The threat of death is definitely that kind of pressure for most as it was for Joe Valachi.
Think he was a rat or just a victim of Genovese's paranoia? or both?
I personally find Genovese to be one of the most detestable figures in the history of organized crime in the 20th century. None of his peers liked him or trusted him. If it would've been only the law after him I think Joe Valachi would've stayed silent. With no real chance to kill Vito I *think would've done the same.
"There are no friends in crime." ~ Muccanera
"Look everyone right in the eye and walk in like you own the joint." ~ Me
È negli occhi
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Re: What's your take on Valachi ~ Rat or Survivor
[Re: dgvc63]
#755258
12/24/13 05:08 AM
12/24/13 05:08 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,531
Lou_Para
Underboss
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Underboss
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Posts: 1,531
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Genovese made a major error by putting Valachi's back to the wall. Instead of "keeping his enemies closer",Vito's ego demanded that he let Valachi spend his days in fear,waiting for the axe to fall,never knowing when or how the end would come. Had Vito taken Valachi into his inner circle in prison,and treated him as a friend,he could have taken him out easily. Instead,this nitwit gives Valachi a literal "kiss of death" in public. Knowing that he was done for and desperate to survive,Valachi kills an innocent man,and puts the wheels in motion for his flipping.
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Re: What's your take on Valachi ~ Rat or Survivor
[Re: dgvc63]
#755264
12/24/13 05:43 AM
12/24/13 05:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 114
dgvc63
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Made Member
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Genovese was a wreck, he basically botched everything he was involved with as boss. I'd like to sit down to salsicc and peppers with Joey Cago.
"There are no friends in crime." ~ Muccanera
"Look everyone right in the eye and walk in like you own the joint." ~ Me
È negli occhi
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Re: What's your take on Valachi ~ Rat or Survivor
[Re: dgvc63]
#755280
12/24/13 09:50 AM
12/24/13 09:50 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 653 Illinois
F_white
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 653
Illinois
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I think it both,Vito and Joe died in jail so what was his point of fliping.Did anyone get charged by Joe talking?
Last edited by F_white; 12/24/13 09:51 AM.
From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn.
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Re: What's your take on Valachi ~ Rat or Survivor
[Re: F_white]
#755282
12/24/13 09:56 AM
12/24/13 09:56 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,789
Dwalin2011
Underboss
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Underboss
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Did anyone get charged by Joe talking? I read somewhere he testified in a Carmine Persico trial. But I am wondering too why didn't his testimony lead to big indictments, like when Buscetta talked in Sicily.
Last edited by Dwalin2011; 12/24/13 09:57 AM.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: What's your take on Valachi ~ Rat or Survivor
[Re: F_white]
#755357
12/24/13 02:49 PM
12/24/13 02:49 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,531
Lou_Para
Underboss
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Underboss
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Posts: 1,531
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I think it both,Vito and Joe died in jail so what was his point of fliping.Did anyone get charged by Joe talking? Valachi's testimony was before Senator McClelland's investigative committee,and didn't result in any real prosecutions. The hearings were held 6 or 7 years after Apalachin,so the public was still fascinated by the whole Mafia thing. Valachi talked about the hierarchy,day to day activities,and general operations of the Mob. He was also the first to expose the making ceremony for new members. Outside of providing some unusual entertainment for the TV crowd,and some political mileage for the Senator,Valachi didn't do a whole lot.
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Re: What's your take on Valachi ~ Rat or Survivor
[Re: Giacomo_Vacari]
#755358
12/24/13 03:07 PM
12/24/13 03:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,789
Dwalin2011
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,789
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Dwalin, the feds gave Valachi a lot of information that they could not use as they obtained them through the use of illegal wire taps and bugs. Valachi was a perfect mouth piece for the information.
Speaking of illegal wiretaps, I remember they recorded enough in Patriarca's office to make him fry on the electric chair 100 times, yet it wasn't allowed because they didn't have a warrant for the bugs or something. But at the time Robert Kennedy was the general attorney, didn't he directly authorize Patriarca's wiretapping? Here http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_outlaws/family_epics/providence_mob/3.htmlit's said he hated Patriarca and said "we're going after that pig on the hill", so if for the general attorney it was ok, why were the tapes defined illegal? What else did they want, an authorization by Patriarca himself?
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: What's your take on Valachi ~ Rat or Survivor
[Re: dgvc63]
#755415
12/24/13 11:23 PM
12/24/13 11:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
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Like some others here- I just read what I can, consider the sources.... and come to a conclusion.
I, personally, believe that Genovese's sources were correct and that Valachi was flirting with the FBI. Again, this is just my take, I don't have any sources that gives me a leg up on others here.
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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