Was watching something about Arthur st in the Bronx earlier, it said it was the real Little Italy in NY.


Is that the case, also is it an area with a strong LCN connection?

Arthur Street?

I think you mean Arthur Avenue.


I like to think it was. The operative word being was. The stores and restaurants are still Italian, but the populace was over 85 percent Latino at the last census (2010). It may even be higher now. Many of the Albanians have even split for the suburbs.


It sure was. But again, the operative word there is was. I was born in 1959 and grew up on the corner of Hoffman and 187th, right in the heart of that neighborhood. Think "A Bronx Tale." Chazz really captured the spirit of the neighbohood at the time when he made that movie. But like I said earlier, today the stores and restaurants are still Italian, but that's about it. There isn't a single social club left. Not one. When I was a kid, there were a dozen.

Patsy Parrello still has his Rigoletto restaurant right on the avenue. But believe it or not, that's a square joint. The place was never a hangout. Patsy and his wife put their hearts and souls into that place. They'd never let it become a "joint."

I know that Genovese captain patsy parello had a restaurant on Arthur ave and operates from there

Look at my post above yours. Rigoletto is his wife's pride and joy. It ain't a hangout. Never has been, never will be. But maybe you heard something in Manchester that I missed living in the Bronx for the past 54 and a half years.

LOL you know you have a problem when ALBANIANS dont want to live in an area anymore

I'm laughing at your joke, Tiger. But a lot of those Bronx Albanians have become successful in their own right. They still don't put much emphasis on higher education. But like a lot of Italians years ago, they saw the value of real estate. Half the landlords on Pelham Parkway today are Albanian

Didn't Patsy Parrello slap Sal LoCascio in the Bronx donkeys years ago before Sal was made? Think the Gambino's had Patsy's son killed in revenge.

PB do you know o this?

Tore was already made when that happened. That was the problem .

According to this article from 2001 mob business was conducted in the restaurant . At least then.

"Big Frankie foiled the robbery with information he passed to the police. During his undercover operation he was a regular visitor to Patsy's Rigoletto restaurant in the the Bronx, where much Genovese business was done. "

Now I'm not saying it is a mob hangout as such but it definitely would appear more mob business is done and dealt with there then might be on the surface. Just my opinion and if I took what you were saying out of context then I apologize.

Link to story

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/VERY+WISE+GUY%3B+How+Big+Frankie+(the+FBI+agent+posing+as+a+mobster)...-a080625150

Wow, didn't know that. Why didn't Patsy get hit?

I meant operates from Arthur ave not the restaurant

I think u guys are taking what PB said too literal. It's an operating restaurant, and a popular one. He's a captain in the genovese family, he's going to have guys who are always wanting to see him. Him talking to a guy at the bar is different than running a card game or handing tickets out at the bar. He may walk up the street to Fordham does that mean he operates out of FU? Guys may hang there but it's 90% legit guys in there every night.

Ok I hear that. And like I said I apologized if I took what he was saying it if context. I thought he meant he would not and did not associate with wise guys really at all or conduct business of any sort there out if respect to his wife and their business. But I see what your saying

And if you read the article I quoted this sounds like it wasn't a one off or few conversations. It says it was a ll e where much Genoese business was conducted. So yes it was not card games but it still was Genoese business. It isn't like he was meeting these guys at his home to talk business

PizzaBoy, do you know if Dominic's is still around, only place outside of Brooklyn where the food was good and not too expensive.

Dominicks is open, but they have menus now. doesnt seem the same ( majority of customers are from outside the BX ), best restaurant in the area is Robertos , but for me, it was better in the old spot .(its too popular now)

Used to live on Hughes Avenue in the mid-90s. It was one block over from Arthur Avenue. I was pretty young butI recall Italian delis and some establishments in that era. I think there was some kind of social club or something across the street from my apartment. And there was tons of Albanians back then. Some PRs too. Dunno what it's like these days. But if it had a LCN element, it was on it's way out if not dead by that era.

Dominick's is a great family style, Italian restaurant and it sucks to hear that they have menus now. I remember my first time there when I was 16 and I was walking down Arthur Ave with my cousin and we went into Enzo's Café...Make a long story short, I was a tourist and I was taking pictures of every place on Arthur Ave including some shots inside Enzo's café when all of a sudden, the guy making espresso jumped over the counter and came up to us and told us that nobody wanted their pictures taken...while there were a group of Mafioso sitting at a table talking amongst themselves. I still have the picture that I will have to dig out.

I still order food from arthuravenuebronx.com. Great gift baskets at Mike's Deli...I send my dad one for Fathers Day every year. I have also mastered Mike's famous eggplant parm recipe.

FYI- Another moderately priced Italian family style spot in Brooklyn is a place called Carmine's. Never had a bad meal there.

One of the best Italian restaurants that I've eaten at in NYC was a place on Mulberry Street (and I hate Mulberry St, it's way too touristy) called Il Cortile. It is a highly rated restaurant and comprised mostly of local New Yorkers, as not many tourists frequent the place.

BEST in NYC- Greenwich Village, Mario Batali's place called Babbo. Hands down the most authentic Italian food I've ever had in the city.

After reading Capeci's book about Al D'Arco, I can easily understand this.

As per his words, D'Arco was obsessed with keeping his Italian restaurant (his day job) clean. La Donna Rosa was his pride and joy, similar to what PB wrote about Rigoletto. I believe his son was the head chef. Little Al was on probation and was prohibited from associating with known felons. So, allowing a fellow mobster to stop by for a simple chat could have potentially landed D'Arco back in jail.

D'Arco put his foot down about having the Chinese Flying Dragons gambling in the back room in a nearby restaurant owned by a Bonanno soldier. He scolded Vic Amuso for trying to talk business in La Donna Rosa, when stopping by after a visit to Gotti's Ravenite club. And he declined Gaspipe's offer to buy in as a partner and expand the restaurant.

He was obsessed with keeping the place free of mob activity and was very paranoid about LE placing bugs in there. And he was a captain and acting boss.

It must have been exciting growing up in the Bronx in the 50's and 60's. I have watched Bronx tale over a dozen times and it still remains one of my all time favorites. Reminds me so much of growing up in Buffalo back "In the day" I still love going to the old Italian restaurants that have survived when I go back up there

Exactly my point, Skin. Thanks for clarifying for me .

What everyone also has to remember is that when "Fat Frankie' was calling that place "ground zero" for the Westside, he was just trying to build himself up into another Joe Pistone. He must have been awful disappointed when Hollywood failed to come knocking .

And even if there was minimal activity (like Skin said, an occasional hello and goodbye type situation), that was before Patsy went away and came home. When he got out a few years ago he had very specific restrictions about consorting with known OC guys, and I know for a fact that a lot of people were told, in no uncertain terms, to stay away.

Long story short, Arthur Avenue was homebase for wiseguys for generations. But not anymore. The poster American Crime mentioned how in the '90s the area was already changing. That time frame sounds right. The last social club that I remember actually operating as a meeting place in the neighborhood was Rudy's "Club Arthur." But they pulled the drapes on that place when he went to prison back in '96 or '97.

Functioning restaurants being "hangouts" = shrinkage and losing money. I don't know why anyone would want their restaurant, bar, etc. to be a hangout for partners in crime. Pacino said it in Brasco, "Wiseguy doesn't pay for a drink". Imagine 10 of them standing around scamming with ever-growing tabs. That Westside skipper PB is describing probably wants everyone staying the fuck away from his wife's place. Maybe he keeps himself on as Food/ Beverage manager for tax purposes, TOPS.

That's well put, Frank. But NO ONE would try to walk out on a tab in that place. Trust me on that.

Patsy is still, at 70 years old, for lack of a better term, a fucking beast with his hands. All that mob shit aside, the guy has hands like catcher's mitts, and he was a black belt in Judo loooooooooong before studying the martial arts became fashionable in New York City. Toughest guy to ever come out of the Fordham neighborhood. Hands fucking down. Back in the '60s he used to chase the Baldies back to the Concourse, and that ain't no lie.

But yeah, he just never wanted heat around that place. It's a legitimate gold mine. Why would he want to fuck up a place where he could show all that money?

"It's a legitimate gold mine"

I've always wondered if FBI agents and DOJ attorneys patronized the businesses of mob members, even if they know that particular business is completely legit. Any one have any experiences? Ever heard of FBI agents on surveillance suddenly getting mysterious outbursts of diarrhea?

"The stores and restaurants are still Italian, but the populace was over 85 percent Latino at the last census (2010)."

Do you think that the stores and restaurants will remain that way after this generation is gone? I understand that East harlem used to have a substantial Italian pop., but it doesn't have a famous street like Arthur Avenue or Mulberry street. I'm guessing that most italians picked up and left when tons of Hispanics and blacks moved in. Is there a comparable street in Staten Island, or were Italians too assimilated by the time large numbers moved out there to make such an area? Or is it too suburban?

There are at least 6 social clubs within the vicinity of Arthur Avenue, maybe a 3 block radius. They are run by different crews or different factions of crews. There are also albanian and macedonian clubs.

DOJ and FBI guys go to these places. Maybe not the clubs, but they frequent the restaurants and they do take pictures and they do have agents there. The Bronx DA used to go to Roberto's often, as did Mayor Bloomberg. When Hilary was in the primary against Obama, she had a party on a spot on Crescent Street, around the corner from Arthur. There were secret service agents all over. Funny thing is a few months before, at a club two doors down, the NYPD had about 12 squad cars and 4 police vans roll up and arrest about a dozen albanians that were all packing and were part of Lenny's Crew (the albanian mafia). Before Lenny and Alex Rudaj got locked up, there were many more clubs. They are now doing 28 years each.

Arthur Avenue will survive because (1) many of the stores are still in the hands of Italians; (2) there are still Italians living there and they won't move; (3) Fordham University is a few blocks away and there are thousands of students and their families who go to Arthur Avenue to eat and shop, so they grow up with Arthur Avenue and return many, many times, many years later; (4) there are foods, products, cooking and baking products on Arthur Avenue that you can't get anywhere else or you can't get for cheaper (for example, Parmigiano Reggiano cheese can be bought on Arthur Avenue for half the price that they sell it anywhere else in the Bronx or Westchester and a third of what they sell it for in Manhattan, you can find all types of cuts of meat, there are stores that make their own dry sausage and salami, you can see and buy a sausage maker, a cheese grater, etc., you can get bread hot off the oven, or ravioli's made that same day or mozzarella that is still warm).