New member here. Can someone explain how a numbers racket/game is run? I'm talking the nuts and bolts: who does what, how bets are placed, how they're picked up, everything? Thanks in advance.

I think that it was similar to the lottery game.You have guys on the streets taking bets from various people.Millions of people bet their money on what the winning number will be.People made bets at the local grocery store, the butcher,on the street, at work, and in any number of bars, cafés, and restaurants.

Back in the days they had 100 numbered balls wich were placed in a bag.The bag was tossed from person to person at the throwing.The sack goes round in the cricle of tossers untill the time for drawing.At the time the person that holds the bag draws a numbered ball out of it and that’s the winning number.

The things is,most of the games were fixed.Tricks such as using 100 balls with the same number.Scams such as putting winning numbers on ice before the game to make them easier for the selector to find when reaching into the bag.Also the selector would hide the winning balls in his hand then 'find them' in the bag.During the throwing,the games were fixed any way the guys wanted.

Welcome

Its a street game lottery. Everybody picks 7 numbers from 1-70 or 1 to whatever number it goes to in that state. Its usually $20 dollars to get in. If nobody hits all their numbers its rolled over into the next week until somebody hits all 7 numbers combining all numbers played for the real state lottery. Sometimes it takes 6 or 7 weeks for somebody to finally hit. Some games require $20 each week to stay in. With a big city like chicago or new york, you have thousands of people playing meaning the pot starts out with $30,000 or $40,000. Ive seen a pot grow to $350,000. Then the funniest part happens. The guy who runs it takes $100,000 off the top. Then the agent who delivers the money takes $20,000 off for his pocket. And when the guy who wins sees its 120,000 short, theres nothing he can say. Huge money in this racket

The 100 ball game is called Bolita,but I don't think that is what you are asking about.
The numbers game is fairly simple. The player places a bet on a three digit number from 000 to 999. For example he bets 123. The bettor can bet the number "straight" which means it has to come up exactly as 123, or he can play boxed,which pays off on any order,321,213,etc. The winning number pays from 450 to 600 to one depending on the area and the operators.
Many bettors will play both straight and boxed,typically by betting $1.00 straight and $1.00 boxed. In this example,the box bet is spread out on the other five possible combinations,so you're actually betting 20 cents on each. On a 600 to one payoff,you would get $600.00 if you hit straight,and $150.00 if you hit boxed.
The odds on a number coming up are 1,000 to one so there is a built in profit of 40 to 55 percent depending on the operators.
A generic numbers racket works as follows. Street level runners take bets from customers. They then turn them in to a controller who covers a particular area. He will then turn them into another higher up level.
There are many different dynamics involved,but generally,the runners will get a percentage as a commission on what they turn in. Additionally there are phone rooms which take in bets from multiple runners. These people may get commission or a salary/commission combo.
As you go up the levels,you may also have people who only turn in bets above a certain dollar amount. They are permitted to "book" the lesser amounts,meaning that they pay the winners themselves and keep the profits.
There is a ton of other stuff involved,but this is a basic jumping off point. A lot of the members on this board are familiar with this topic,so if you need more info,you're in the right place.

Yes you r rihgt,i was wrong thats the Bolita game

Lou_Para, yes, that's what I was looking for, thank you. I'm particularly interested in when the games were popular in the 1940s, when stay-at-home moms were betting 5¢ to play. I'm aware that the winning numbers were hidden in plain sight, for instance in the stock market pages of the newspaper where the last three digits or the middle three digits of a particular stock was the winning number, and that this was done to ensure an honest game. But who picked the method? The guy running the whole game, I assume? How would a lowly runner move up through the ranks to a higher position?

It may surprise you,but people were still betting nickles and dimes in the late seventies.
My dad and uncle were in the numbers business during that time and many people bet under a dollar on their total wager(straight and boxed).
As to the method of picking the winners,it depended on the operators. To use an example,in New York,numbers was originally a Black owned and operated racket. The winning number was the last 3 digits to the left of the decimal point on the total daily amount of para-mutual wagers at a particular racetrack(I believe Aqueduct,but I could be wrong). This was considered a tamper proof system. Most major cities used a similar method with their local tracks.The other method was to take the first 3 digits to the right of the decimal on the total shares on the NYSE,or the US Treasury balance for that day.
Here's a funny sideline.When Dutch Schultz took over the numbers in New York,they used the para-mutual bet total. Schultz employed a mathematical genius named Otto "Abbadabba Berman who would figure out how much Schultz's guys would have to bet on races at the track so that the winning numbers would be the ones with the lowest amount of wagers placed with Schultz.In return for this,Otto got paid the staggering sum of $10,000 per week as compared to the 1 or 2 hundred dollars that Schultz's other guys were paid.
As far as promotion in the ranks,all I can tell you is that my uncle started out taking bets at a couple of factories in our area (Western PA). He had a guy that he would turn the money over to. As he got known and got more customers,he added more locations, then he started getting other guys to take bets at their places of employment and turn their money into him,which he would add to his total that he submitted.

The guys under him got a commission on their total bets,as did my uncle.After a few years,he was given permission to "book" any wagers of $2.00 or less,and to turn in any wagers over that amount.My dad's job was to take phone calls from 10 or 15 numbers writers every day, take their bets,do a tally sheet and submit it to my uncle. My uncle had 4 or 5 other guys who did the same thing.
Before PA legalized the Lottery,a customer could play a number 4 different ways.These were Old Stock,New Stock,Town Race ,and *** Race(sorry but this would narrow down who and where I am).
The Old and New Stock was the first 3 digits to the right of the decimal on the NYSE and Nasdaq (or the Dow, depending on the decade)total shares traded ,and the Town Race and *** Race was based on local horse track results.
After the State got into it,the winner was the same as the Daily Number.

Exactly what I needed to know. You're a wealth of information, Lou_Para, thank you again. If/when I have more questions, I'll know just where to go...

Yup, of course it was rigged. Nobody ever won the top prize or a large amount of cash but it was designed that way.

So who would control the numbers games/rackets in a medium sized city or small town?

The mob? Would they set up a fake business posing as an office or something, and then have people sell numbers or take bets for them?

As far as most numbers rackets go,the Mob is only involved at the upper levels such as operating the "banks" from which winners are paid,losing wagers are deposited,and the "juice" payments to the cops and politicians are made.

On a day to day street level,the people who take the bets and collect the money can literally be anyone. A guy who works at a large warehouse might take bets from co-workers. Bartenders,teachers,barbers, might pick up some action from their circles as well.

Most numbers writers(the people who take bets)are everyday folks who have a connection to someone and are picking up a nice side income. Anybody who takes numbers action will turn their "play" into someone up the chain.That person then kicks up the money to another person up the ladder.

Generally speaking,the organizational chart is as follows:
Made Guy,usually a Capo
Made Guy (Soldier)
Associate
Workers
In a given neighborhood,the workers turn their money in to an associate who May supervise 10 or 20 writers.
The associate then turns in to a higher level associate,or a Made Guy who is responsible for multiple neighborhoods or areas,
The Made Guy then turns in to his Capo who may have 8 or 10 (or more)Made Guys kicking up from their areas.
Of course the Capo then kicks up to the Boss.
This is a very general outline,but pretty much covers the basics.

There is no central office or location involved,and at each step,the money and betting slips change hands at bars,restaurants,car washes,parking lots,etc.

The commission structure for the street level writers is usually from 20-30 percent of all the action they take. This is a good deal for the higher ups,since a lot of people use their commissions to play their own numbers.Of course they lose most of it back to the operators.

Hopefully,I helped you out a little,but if you have any more questions,fire away.There are tons of fellow posters who know all about this stuff.

Hi Lou_Para thanks you did answer some of my questions. Do you have a way to contact you either via email off site, or can you turn on private messages on this site?

Glad I could provide some info for ya.
Currently,I only do posts on the boards.
On down the road,I may do PM or E-Mail.

Interesting stuff, para

OK thanks let me know if you ever do wind up doing PM or e-mail.

could anyony mobster in the numbers racket have control of nore then one boro. I read fat tony had harlem think when he got bumped up he gave it to some guy jimmy nap. the colombos I think shared bk with carlo family and funzi according to scarpa. did the bobnanos own queens back then? I guess when you got 12 million people in the city you can share the pie.

but fat tony had fish and Im guessing blacks from harlem wreck you store if you operated 2 blocks from any of his shit and I read gigante crew was the same.

The Blacks had just about everything west of Lexington Avenue in Harlem. Tony's neighborhood was pretty much everything from 96th to 125th Streets, and east of Lexington.

The Blacks ran their neighborhoods, the Italians ran theirs. Believe it or not there was very little friction between the two groups.

^^^^Did they have to kick something up to Salerno?.... I'm sure he got a cut from them, No?

Was this game referred to as the N****r pool in NY? That's what they called it in Boston.

In cities and small towns was there just one main numbers game that was controlled by the mob?

Or did people ever try to set up a numbers game network on their own somehow? Or did the people who tried to do it on their own get forced to stop, or join the mob in the city/small town they lived in or they'd 'disappear'?

they talked about "the pool" from the steps of their projects

What's interesting is, if you read A Matter Of Honor by former NYPD detective Remo Franceschini, he talks about them conducting investigations on the numbers operations in Harlem, including in the black sections. But even there they found, as they dug deeper, that the ones really calling the shots were the Genovese family. Guys like Bumpy Johnson were basically front men in the black community for the West Side. He said all the big numbers bankers were the Italian mob guys and the black operators depended on them. They got Bumpy on tape once complaining ""Take me to the guineas! Take me to the guineas! ni**ers don't know how to run things. We should be controlling out own banks."

^^^^

Absolutely, Ivy.

One of Bumpy Johnson's best friends in the entire world was Larry "Black" Centore, the old Westside skipper. From what I've heard (from an extremely reliable source), they actually socialized. Which, not to get into the whole racial stigma, was VERY rare back then.

How did people who took bets for numbers games as a side job (or in other words a source of income but obviously not their official source to the public or in records like tax forms, a census, etc.) get picked, and how did the mob know they could be trusted?

The oldest way in the world. You know somebody.
Since taking numbers bets is basically punishable by a fine or MAYBE probation,being a summary or misdemeanor in most jurisdictions,there is no detailed vetting process involved. For example,my uncle ran a small/mid level numbers writing operation. My Dad,my Aunt,and me all took bets from friends and neighbors. If a friend of mine worked at a large factory,I might see if he would be interested in taking co-workers action. If he did,I would collect his slips and money (minus his 25 percent),and turn them in as an addition to my play.When he had winners,I would deliver the cash to him to make the payout.
What you have to remember is that numbers is a business that generates a huge profit margin,much of which goes to politicians,judges, and Law Enforcement. No one has a vested financial interest in shutting it down. Other than a few token, publicity seeking busts,the average numbers writer faces less punishment than parking in a Handicap spot without a permit.

Once in the early 80's, the cops raided our house and seized my Dad's phones(4 of them)and tally sheets which indicated an average weekly handle of around $11,000 dollars.(this was not my dad's income,but rather the total bets that he took and turned in to my uncle). The cops gave my Dad a paper that told him when to come to the Police Station to get pictures and prints.He wound up getting a $750 fine (summary offense),which my uncle paid. My uncle also kicked $2500 to the State cop that led the raid, in return for him "losing" most of the tally sheets,thereby keeping below the level that would attract IRS attention.

Interesting sideline. The raid was made by a combined task force consisting of Pittsburgh City and PA State Police. The reason that the gambling task forces in those days didn't include the Allegheny County Police was that the County Police Superintendent
was a guy named Carl Alberts.His brother,"Inky" Alberts was a major numbers guy in the city. "Inky" was famous for accumulating over $300,000 in fines which went unpaid for years without any repurcussions.
As my Uncle used to say,"what a world".

OK thank you for the information Lou.

Do you happen to know how it would work almost 100 years ago?

How did betting with an illegal bookie work?

Could someone go to an illegal bookie and bet on both a horse race, and play an illegal lottery or numbers game?

I personally have never done anything like this as I do not gamble and I have never been to a horse race...so I am not sure how it really works legally, or illegally.

I have played legalized lottery games but never for a lot of cash and just for fun a few times. Sometimes I won but never more than $4-$5 at the most.

First of all,you're doing the right thing by staying away from gambling.My Dad and Uncle didn't make a lot of money because they could pick winning numbers. They made a lot of money because their customers couldn't.

As far as your question,this is only my opinion, but I would imagine that no matter what period in history,there was always someone to take gambling action.

Generally speaking,sports books take racing and sports action,while numbers guys take numbers action. That doesn't mean that one guy couldn't take both (or more). It just means that each is kind of a specialized operation . In an illegal casino,for example,you can shoot Craps or play Blackjack,and in all probability ,play a number and get a bet down on football or racing if you want. A lot of these joints are "one stop" stores.

Back in the old days,you probably could get a numbers bet and a horse bet down with the same guy,because one of the common methods used to determine the winning number was either the order of the first three horses in a designated race,or a number based on the total "handle " for a designated track.(usually the first three digits to the left of the decimal point).
Other methods were used as well,this was just a common one .

Throughout history,going back hundreds of years if not more,there has always been some form of game in which you could place a bet on the outcome of a particular number.Only the methods of picking the number and the operators of the game have changed.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Thank you for the information. If you ever wind up turning on private messages or want to correspond via email please let me know. I have something in common with you.

How were betting and numbers games seen back in the day in the 1900s through early 1950s or 1960s?

Not a bad thing, or just something people did with the help of the mob to earn extra money for themselves or their family along with their legit day job?

As something that was someone's side business that only people in the know would know about?

A way of life?

Or all of the above?

How did other 1st generation Italian-Americans, or recently arrived Italian immigrants who had recently become or were going to become naturalized American citizens feel about them or the people who did this as a side business?