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Re: You're out, Tom.
[Re: JacobJ]
#768911
03/20/14 02:57 PM
03/20/14 02:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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I've heard many different explanations for why Michael replaced Tom with Vito for consigliere.
The first one I've heard was Vito was dying and getting old and Michael wanted to use his wisdom as much as possible. The second one I've heard was Tom wasn't a wartime consigliere, but his face of disappointment when that was announced almost convinced me he had the ability. Or did that mean he was vulnerable to getting attacked? But the best one I've heard was how he was testing Toms loyalty, especially after the betrayals in the family.
What do you guys think? Tom is one of my favorite characters. There is a little truth in all the theories you espoused. There is an ongoing sibling rivalry between Michael and Tom that went back at lease as far as December 7 1941 when Pearl Harbor was attacked and Mike signed up for the Marines. At that time he was livid at Tom for discussing his future with Vito. There is also a foreshadowing of Michael's concerns about Tom as consigliere during the wedding scene when he tells Kay that Tom is in line to be consigliere. He makes it a point to say he is a good lawyer, but not a Sicilian. In fact Tom was not a wartime consigliere. He was always trying to settle things and compromise. Santino complained to him about this and so did Michael. In the end, I think Michael trusted him but he was always testing him and using his position to belittle him. Still he trusted tom with the fact that he was going after the heads of the five families, how to deal with Geary and how to settle things with Frank Pentangeli.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: You're out, Tom.
[Re: JacobJ]
#768933
03/20/14 04:55 PM
03/20/14 04:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 98 New York, NY
Questadt
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 98
New York, NY
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I agree that the best answer is probably a bit of all three explanations - although strictly speaking, Michael could have kept Tom as consigliere, at least officially, and continued to receive all the counsel from Vito that he needed, and thereby have the best of both worlds.
Fundamentally, however, I think it's because Tom in fact was not a wartime consigliere. Tom seems to have been a superb analyst and strategist. But he was basically a gentleman by temperament - notwithstanding the dirty deeds he'd done. He simply didn't possess the killer instinct of the Corleones.
"A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns."
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Re: You're out, Tom.
[Re: JacobJ]
#769043
03/21/14 09:30 AM
03/21/14 09:30 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
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While I agree that all the theories above have merit, I think a major factor not yet mentioned was Michael's personality.
It was not in Michael's controlling nature to work in consultation with someone else.
He doesn't actually replace Tom with Vito as consigliere, he basically eliminated the position.
His words are telling: "If I ever need help, who's a getter consigliere than my father?"
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: You're out, Tom.
[Re: olivant]
#769221
03/22/14 11:20 AM
03/22/14 11:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Yes W, that statement from Michael was telling. As II & III illustrate, Michael apparently did eliminate the consigliere position. At least Tom was a "peace time consigliere." What the hell was George Hamilton?
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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