Here's an opinion post. What do you guys think about the old boss of all bosses style vs having a commission? Would it make it harder for the feds to do these mass arrests and group convictions? Would in hurt their ability for surveillance and info gathering? That old system got replaced a long time ago but I'm wondering what are the downsides to it as well as possible good aspects.

The Commission was a brilliant idea at the time of its inception. Without it, there's a good chance that the Italian American families would have gone the way of the Jewish and Irish gangs. But fifty years on, after the introduction of RICO, it came back to bite them in the ass. Because as soon as the Government thinks that you're involved with something bigger than yourself, you're going to have problems. And RICO gave them the tools to destroy you with it.

Right PB I had RICO in mind when I wrote that post. So that whole guilty by association thing is probably magnified now by ruling bodies like the commission. At least if one guy assumes all the power, he becomes the lightning rod instead of the heads of every family in one big sweep

Right. If the Commission still sat post 1980's, all of them would have died in jail. Instead of just most of them .

Please stop with those fictional words "boss of bosses". It was a phrase made up by some Feds & eager news journalist to try and score ratings and a conviction when John Gotti Sr Got pinched. There is no 1 boss telling any other boss how to run their families (with maybe an exception to the jersey guys)

It was used during the gotti days and created by some journalists huh? I was under the impression it was used all the way up to the point when the 5 families and the commission were organized. I'll let PB shed some light here. He seems to know whats up.

I ain't gettin involved .

The term certainly predates the Gotti era, by some fifty years, right back to the Maranzano and Masseria days. But Marbala does have a point. It was always a mythical position. Carlo Gambino never gave an order to Tommy Lucchese, nor vice-versa.

So you're both half right .

I didn't think it was an official position btw. Not that I'm am expert mob historian, but to me it seems like a default position that the most powerful boss would have and he would have a disproportionate amount of influence over other families. Not like bonanno shining gambino's shoes and giving up his businesses to him on command, but basically one guy with power over other families with no commission to step in. Until people got fed up and killed the guy.. is that inaccurate? Again I'm no expert. So I'm really asking. Not demanding that my view is the absolute truth

And with that perception, my original point was that this boss of bosses guy would become the lightning rod for the feds. With the commission, if an order was passed to kill someone, they're all guilty. The old style seems like it would weaken the case for mass roundups

Well, you asked, so I'll tell you. It was a different time. What you say may have had merit 50 or 60 years ago. But since the RICO and electronic surveillance age? Nah.

Joe Bonanno had a single book ghost written for him that led to the indictment of almost every boss on the street. And with all the rats today? One wire at a commission meeting would lead to a 300 person roundup with about 500 counts of racketeering attached.

The Commission wouldn't work today for that very reason. Two bosses having a cup of coffee together would have every branch of Federal Law Enforcement, from the FBI to Homeland to ATF, foaming at the mouth. Things change.

So the days of LCN must be numbered at this point. With the rats and the high tech shit the feds use, on top of RICO and long prison terms for things not involving drugs or murder, who in their right minds would join these days? Seems like for every 2 years free, they gotta spend 10 locked up. And where are they recruiting these days? Ghetto Italian neighborhoods are a thing of the past at this point too right?

Rght

LCN My point exactly terms made famous by John Gotti

Funny I remember valachi using that term...

Your missing my point I not saying the word dog was never used in the English language. That clip of valachi saying that at the senate hearings was probably seen by everyone on this forum. I'm saying that terminology made famous during the Gotti era and used as a tool by the government to inflate the situation to the lay person. As the same with boss of bosses, anybody who thinks Gotti was "the boss of bosses" is blind to reality.

Uh huh... Both of which I never said. You're the only one who brought that up. And not only did valachi say it at the hearings, but the fbi only asked him about it after they heard it on wiretaps. Soooo... any other lessons for me?

No you seem to have it all champ, keep studying and hitting the books maybe someday guys will start a thread about you.

Gotcha. I see tons about you. I'm sure you're a very important guy offline..

Life ain't about being important my friend specially in the lifestyle you seem to have an interest in. Being important only means your the next guy to get indicted or killed. Sorry if I offended you I'm just finished with all the textbook terminology. Don't be so confrontational. But anytime you wanna compare resumes feel free I ain't got no secrets.

Got a good story that my Daddio told me about Joe Valachi. As a kid valachi's father did not want him around. A lot of that went around where I lived.

So Joe Valachi lived on the street on a Hun 7 between first and the river. Right around the corner from where I lived before I ran away from home and lived on the street as well.

He lived in the iron place horse barn. It was a scrape iron place we just called it the iron place. They moved the scrap iron by horse pulled carts. They still used horse and carts when I was a kid.

The barn he lived in was full of rats I guess east river rats big like cats. I guess when you live with rats you will become a rat.

As kids we used to break into their office when they were out with the horse and rob what ever we could find. Out times we go in the barn when the horses were out and shoot the rats in the barn.

Well it's a true story

I have no interest in studying that life. I know more than you think. However, I also grew up away from it due to me being at a young age when Rudy went on the warpath. So certain things happened, I moved upstate, and grew up mostly disconnected from all that shit. I have no respect for that life or the people in it. I stayed away from that when I grew up, certain people that are close to me didn't, and they paid the price for it. I'm no fanboy, and I just use the terms on this forum that I see on this forum over and over. May as well play to the crowd instead of getting caught up on stupid shit like terms used to describe things..

Tru that I guess I'm new here and should listen a little more and talk less. I gotta get used to this type of chat. I wasn't so fortunate I grew up smack dab right in the middle of it all and paid for it in blood sweat tears & years. I'll try to refrain from any further disruption.

I'm newer than u here. Let's just continue on PMs instead of open forums

Lol

Everything you mentioned above takes it's toll but what ultimately does the families in is simple attrition. Which is why we don't see any existing families out west anymore, since they never had big numbers to begin with. It's also why most of the families in the Midwest are gone. And why 90% of the mob's remaining membership is in the Northeast. The NY families have been able to keep their membership levels relatively steady for the past 20 years or so. And, despite all the news hype, far more guys still don't flip than do. They are in a decline but it's a slow one.

So ivyleague am I to believe they're recruiting from the suburbs in Westchester now? I live in NY not far from the city and I really don't see many poverty stricken italian areas. I'm not familiar with all the nneighborhood in all the boroughs so I may be wrong, but what's the deal with that? Seems like most Italians are growing up with plenty of options now. Not like the past where they could basically take their pick

Yes believe it, doesn't matter the options. Some are to stupid to look and see what's available for them, others choose that bullshit for ego and trying to play big shot. Plenty of guys in Westchester, the King of all Kings lives in New Rochele!

Well I'm not surprised for the guys that join so much. I know plenty of people with good homes and lots of options that ended up criminals.. I'm more surprised that the established members let those types in. Then again they gotta let some people in if they want an organization at all, but I think I would be afraid I'd be breeding potential rats by bringing in a bunch of suburban rich kids.. Gotta do what you gotta do I guess

I think The Sopranos does a pretty good job of portraying future generation mobsters, kids like Jackie Jr. and his friends as well as Matthew Bevilaqua. Obviously not inner-city street guys, but suburban little shits involved in small drug operations, not to mention users.

He's reigned it in A LOT since his wife passed away .