I heard recently that the Writer's Guild voted the Sopranos the greatest TV show. What do you guys think is the greatest show of all time?

Honestly, I think The Sopranos Seasons 1-3 were among the best of all time, but not the remaining seasons. If we're looking at complete series, I would put The Wire just above The Sopranos.

Here's the list:

http://www.wga.org/content/default.aspx?id=4925

Some of these shows are too low -- CYE, NYPD Blue, Homicide and South Park. I disagree with Law and Order, Roseanne, Friends and Will and Grace on this list.

I wonder how the show would have panned out had Nancy Marchand(Livia) not died during it.

I read that the big storyline they were building too was the airline tickets and whether Tony's mum would testify or not. I guess they had to change the storyline completely after her death.

I think alot of people feel the same way after season 3 i hear.

Top show, no doubt, but I have to put The Wire as the number one show for me as it demonstrated the frailty of the human condition when exposed and caught in a vicious cycle of bloated bureaucracy.

The Sopranos on the other hand focuses mostly on LCN and all that it entails in modern day North Jersey, NYC, and the mindset of Tony Soprano.

I'd put it right up there, but it's not at the very top of my list. The writing was great, but things did tail off toward the end. Not to say that other great shows did not have lulls. Anything on for more than 3-4 years is going to have a few lesser episodes.

I would say that among the shows I have watched, Tony Soprano was - hands down - the most complex character in television history.

I haven't seen a lot of the recent cable or Netflix series, so I really can't speak for all time. I basically agree with the Sopranos assessment - a couple of good years.

I remember TV back into the early 60s, and I think the best series I've ever seen is Hill Street Blues. They probably got over 100 episodes before the writing ran out of steam.

Edit: of course, I'm talking dramatic shows here. There's probably a dozen sitcoms that are better than any drama that's been on.

Sopranos, Breaking Bad and The Wire are the best in no particular order..

Hill Street Blues took a dive in latter seasons, mostly because most of the original writing staff left, and the new writing staff created characters and plot lines to bump up their residuals (I think they would have received far, far less if they maintained the status quo).

Of course, there wasn't much they could do about Michael Conrad passing away from cancer in Season 4. That was a difficult character to replace.

The Sopranos is the best show of all time IMO. There are many great shows like Breaking Bad, The Simpsons, Seinfeld.. but The Sopranos is number one.

It's hard to compare The Sopranos with Seinfeld. I'm sure most would agree that Seinfeld is the best comedy and Sopranos the best (or nearly the best) drama.

The Wire was great as well. NinoBrown's explanation of why it is great is accurate. I particularly enjoyed the first season of the wire because I felt it was so accurate and genuine. There were some parts of later seasons that I thought moved away from the realistic nature of the first season (The characters in the first 1 or 2 seasons were most realistic).

HBO, Showtime etc. have been offering entire runs of their original series via on demand since January. I've watched a few that I never viewed during their initial runs and after viewing them I can't understand how they were so critically acclaimed. For me the Sopranos is still the best dramatic show ever - period. I thought the Wire was good but after the first season the dock workers storyline was a let down. I might give Breaking Bad another shot but just couldn't watch it the first time around. I liked the Shield - that show could have benefitted from being on a subscription network. Having worked in advertising on and off since the 80s I enjoyed the first couple of seasons of Mad Men. When the show was more about deals, drinking and dames! So much of it brought back memories - the good ol' days before anybody knew what a "Human Resources" lady was. As soon as it turned into a full time exploration of don Drapers psyche I lost interest - I got my own problems.
As far as sitcoms - I still enjoy Seinfeld occasionally and nothing beats South Park in the animation category although Robot Chicken has its moments (the James Bond episode is priceless).

Sopranos is definitely No. 1. The only drama that contend with the Sopranos is Breaking Bad in my opinion..but I have not yet watched The Wire which seems to be popular as well. And I agree with Seinfeld as the best comedy, no question!

Sopranos is the best gangster series.

I have to say Breaking Bad was a masterpiece too


I'm still waiting for the PREQUEL to the Sopranos

Everyone on here should collaborate to write a screenplay for it
Since we're on here all the time talking about which gangster did what to
who.
INSTEAD we all could make a little extra change and there would be something GOOD on TV
lol

I think the people that made the Wire wanted to make a realistic show about the low level drug trade (I know they hired ex-cops, dealer Melvin Williams - who is the shit by the way). I have to agree with MikeySunset that the dockworkers plot line didn't do much for me. But I think the guys making the show wanted to go beyond the African American dealers that control the street level and show who brings huge multi-kilo loads into cities - and that's typically not African Americans. A lot of times it's white people or South Americans bringing in the big loads. In any case...I think that's what they were trying to do...even though I still got really sick of the dock workers. The only dock worker I liked was Uncle Frank's nephew.

And I do think Sopranos is the best series all together. Having Tony see a psychiatrist allowed the viewer to get inside Tony's head in a way that no other gangster movie/show has done. Also, the show dealt with tons of issues like parenting, morality, death, etc...

One of my favorite scenes from The Wire. McNulty and Bunk break open a case, using nothing but the f-word (and it's derivatives) for four minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO0WW2QXIYc

Its definitely n my top 5 for what its worth

Better than Breaking Bad and The Wire. I never really could get into Oz.

Great scene..

Tried to get into Oz, but never could. Too much of the sexual assault aspect. I understand it goes on in prison (and somehow is joke fodder for mainstream America), but having some people close to me affected by similar crimes, I cringe.

A lot of people marginalise the show for stereotyping Italian-American's, although as far as mob productions go the Sopranos is definitely the most realistic. Especially, in terms of showing us how Americanized the mob has become and the slow decline of a once prominent organization with morals and values.

"slow decline of a once prominent organization with morals and values"

Parisi can you please elaborate on this? I am specifically interested in the "Moral and Values" part.

Perhaps "morals and values" were not the right words to use. I was inferring to the attrition of "stand-up" mafiosi, ie: Carlo Gambino and Johnny Soprano and insinuating the current crop of mafiosi like Joe Massino and in the Sopranos Pussy Bonpensiero proved how once a prominent organization was now disintegrating in terms of quality and quantity. I hope that clears up the situation, I am by no means advocating the Mafia or how they conduct business.

I think Parisi was alluding that old style LCN, or just Gangsters of the past had some type of code in the past of simply not speaking out in order to save their own skin and reduce their sentence. Nowadays with RICO, changing economy, and family life, many will turn informant rather than to "die in the place" as Junior once said or have their families out on the street and on welfare.

Ultimately, OC is becoming a relic, a thing of the past as many American traditions have gone to the wayside, blue-collar jobs, educational wherewithal, small business, and work ethic. For example, Patsy and Burt tried to shakedown a Jamba Juice and ultimately failed as they(representative of LCN) were powerless in the face of a corporate juggernaut.America has become a corporation and Tony had it pegged in season 1 that the real criminals were the Rockefellers, JP Morgans, and Carnegies.

Back to The Wire, you have:
Season 1 - The Street Level Dealers
Season 2 - The Docks, Unions, and Greek Connection
Season 3 - Failure of City Hall, Police, and citizen disenchantment
Season 4 - The decline of the American Education System
Season 5 - Media warping and shaping American culture

Those that say Season 2 is the weakest of The Wire underestimate the Greek connection who move the drugs into Baltimore, they are the ones with real power who don't even get touched and essentially are in bed with the FBI. Who loses in this case? Everyone, the citizens of Baltimore, is who, or honestly the American Citizen. From the Dock Worker to the child caught in a drive by over "corner BS", to the overworked and underpaid peace officer, or School Teacher having to allow some of his students to shower in the locker room because their home life is so awful.

The Wire doesn't sugarcoat or glorify violence, it shows the fallout and direct after effects of the vicious drug trade of Baltimore and how it is ultimately perpetuated due to the betrayal of politicians, an inept police department, underfunded school system, and institutionalized classism.

The Sopranos tend to gloss over certain facts over their victims. Whatever happened to those old folks that had probably lost their life savings with with Chrissy's stock scheme? What about Ralphie getting greased and his son with having a huge stack of hospital bills and a possible learning disability? I'm sure his Mom is going to have a financial hardship going forward. What about JT Dolan? He had children and an ex-wife that he'll no longer be able to support, or Tony B's twins? Point is, a lot of victims and their supporting families will have very tough time going forward.

Excellent summary of The Wire. Another aspect of Season 2 that gets overlooked is how the political machine of Baltimore screwed over the dock workers (and blue collar workers in general) in favor of developers. After all, it was developer money that kept the political coffers full, whereas the unions had little to no voice since their finances were on the decline.

Also overlooked in Season 2 was Stringer betraying the Barksdale organization, which led to his death, but also the breakup of Avon's drug empire. Stringer had D'Angelo killed to maintain his silence, but he did the same thing Bunny Colvin did in Season 3 -- his co-op kept a lid on the violence. If there wasn't the violence, the politicians and the police wouldn't care, and the drug trade would have thrived.

What I liked best about The Wire is how the final episode brought things to a conclusion, which was that it was the same thing, day in and day out. Sydnor was the new McNulty, whining about the bosses in Judge Phelan's office. Michael Lee was the new Omar, ripping and running. Had there been an epilogue five years past the finale, it would be the same story line, only with different characters.

Its_da_Jackeeettttttt, you are so right with the Wire characters transforming into other variations of other characters.

Duquan became the new Bubbles (which actually made me cry because he was a sweet kid that was smart, but never got the right support). Bubbles became free

Kima became the new Lester

Carcetti became Gov. and Nyreese Campbell became the new Carcetti/Royce, mayor incumbent.

Mike became Omar

Slim became the new Avon(or other Kingpin), though more even keeled.

The Greeks continue to win as we still didn't even get their name after 5 years lol.

What we can learn from the Wire is that pawns want to become Kings, be it on the Street, City Hall, Docks, Police Department, and in that attempt you may get taken out in more ways than one.

The Wire layers so many dramatic ironies, it isn't even funny. One of my favorite ironies is that Stringer Bell, for all of his plotting and scheming, is undone by his lack of finesse for politics and his contempt for the drug trade by treating it like an excel spreadsheet. Avon, "Since when do we buy corners". He was too smart for the streets, but not wise enough to hang with the developers and creeps at City Hall. However, Marlo, ends up getting the keys to the city after his entire organization is destroyed and gaining more power in a year than Avon and Stringer could ever hope to dream of, let alone actually attain.

The most upsetting irony is that good attempts to thwart evil, but ends up getting destroyed in the process, BPD vs The Stansfields, Omar vs Marlo, City Hall Politics, The School System, The Dock Workers...

David Simon summed it up conclusively, and one of his characters Marlo said it best Avon, "The game is the game"

Simon had this as well about The Wire -- "...really about the American city, and about how we live together. It's about how institutions have an effect on individuals. Whether one is a cop, a longshoreman, a drug dealer, a politician, a judge or a lawyer, all are ultimately compromised and must contend with whatever institution to which they are committed."

None was more emblematic of that than Stringer Bell. He was the smartest and most cunning on the streets, but stood no chance to the political and developers machine. For all his street smarts, a corrupt state senator rain made him like a two-bit huckster.

Also in the final season, the death of print media was explored with staff cuts at the paper and Templeton falsifying stories to get his articles above the fold.

And to add insult to injury Mikey_Sunset, Templeton ended up getting a Pulitzer Prize!!!

Jimmy was onto Scott Templeton's bullshit. The "oh shit" look on Scott's face is priceless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i98zHfCZQO8