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Re: Who was the mysterious 'Sandino'
[Re: Snakes]
#812756
11/10/14 03:54 PM
11/10/14 03:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 855
Fleming_Ave
Underboss
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I believe his birth name was Alessandro Pandolfo. I'll buy that, because Sandino sounds like a nickname for Alessandro.
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Re: Who was the mysterious 'Sandino'
[Re: Faithful1]
#899631
11/25/16 08:07 AM
11/25/16 08:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,710
BillyBrizzi
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Where is the evidence that Torrio was even made? Don't you think Faithful, that the whole blood & fire induction ceremony was primarily to impress the young foot soldiers and that a guy like Johnny Torrio, who was an elder statesman in the eyes of Lucky Luciano, would be made without formality in those days?
Last edited by BillyBrizzi; 11/25/16 08:09 AM.
FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
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Re: Who was the mysterious 'Sandino'
[Re: CabriniGreen]
#899657
11/25/16 02:27 PM
11/25/16 02:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
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See this is one of those questions that I look at like........ So it went, what? Lucky- Boss Genovese - UnderBoss Pandolfo- Consiglieri? Costello - Capo-regime Joe Adonis - Capo-regime
Really?
Then Lucky goes to jail, and it's.... Genovese -Boss Costello - UnderBoss? Pandolfo - Consiglieri?
Then Genovese flees and its.....
Costello - Boss Moretti - UnderBoss Pandolfo - Consiglieri? ( still?)
So Mike Miranda makes consigliere in 57? Who was this Pandolfo aligned with? I'm assuming a holdover from the oldMasseria is group. Did he have a crew, and if so, who were the successors?
I actually got another question, did Maranzano start the actual hierarchy, or was it already in place? Was there always a consigliere position, or was that created by either Maranzano or Luciano?
Tony Bender would have been number three before or after Miranda? Frank Costello was the consigliere when Luciano was boss. So the chart may be more like this: 1931: Boss: Lucky Luciano Underboss: Vito Genovese Consigliere: Saverio Pollaccia (k. 1932) 1932: B: Luciano U: Genovese C: Frank Costello 1936-1945: B: Luciano Acting boss: Costello [Joe Valachi says "Chee Gusae" and Willie Moretti were briefly acting bosses around 1936 or so] U: Genovese Acting underboss: Willie Moretti C: Costello Acting consigliere: Alessandro "Sandino" Pandolfo 1947-1948: B: Costello U: Genovese C: Pandolfo (died in 1948) 1948-1957: B: Costello U: Genovese C: unknown [Michele Miranda was the next known consigliere, but we don't know when he was promoted to this position; we know he was the consigliere under Genovese] 1957-1969: B: Genovese U: Gerry Catena C: Miranda Hope that helps.
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Re: Who was the mysterious 'Sandino'
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#899660
11/25/16 02:46 PM
11/25/16 02:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
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Faithful1, who is this "Chee Gusae"? Strange nickname. Chee sounds like it's short for Francesco, but Gusae is impossible to figure out. Valachi often mangled names that he had difficulty remembering. It's important to note that he was recalling events from 30 years earlier, and that can be challenging for any of us. Something else: Valachi reported this Chee Gusae in his Senate testimony, but it's not in his book The Real Thing. You can read what Tom Hunt typed out from The Real Thing here: http://mafiahistory.us/a023/therealthing.htm
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Re: Who was the mysterious 'Sandino'
[Re: Faithful1]
#899663
11/25/16 03:05 PM
11/25/16 03:05 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,710
BillyBrizzi
Underboss
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Joined: Oct 2015
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Where is the evidence that Torrio was even made? Don't you think Faithful, that the whole blood & fire induction ceremony was primarily to impress the young foot soldiers and that a guy like Johnny Torrio, who was an elder statesman in the eyes of Lucky Luciano, would be made without formality in those days? No, I don't think that. Just because someone was involved with organized crime doesn't mean they were inducted into the Cosa Nostra. Appreciate the reply Faithful and always value your insights..
FORTIS FORTUNA IUVAT
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Re: Who was the mysterious 'Sandino'
[Re: Faithful1]
#899669
11/25/16 04:11 PM
11/25/16 04:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,788
Dwalin2011
Underboss
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,788
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Faithful1, thanks for the link. I had forgotten about another question about this part: 1936-1945: B: Luciano Acting boss: Costello [Joe Valachi says "Chee Gusae" and Willie Moretti were briefly acting bosses around 1936 or so] U: Genovese Acting underboss: Willie Moretti C: Costello Acting consigliere: Alessandro "Sandino" Pandolfo
If they had the official underboss and the official consigliere who were free and active, what was the need for the acting underboss and acting consigliere? I thought they put "active" ones only when the "official" ones are in prison or can't be inolved in the mafia activity in that moment for some other reason. Well, Genovese was on the run in Italy from murder charges, but Costello had no problems in that moment, why did they need to support him with an active consigliere? Edit: or, if Costello was acting boss for the imprisoned Luciano, how could he be the official consigliere at the same time? Why didn't they make Pandolfo official consigilere then?
Last edited by Dwalin2011; 11/25/16 04:12 PM.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: Who was the mysterious 'Sandino'
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#899720
11/25/16 09:55 PM
11/25/16 09:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
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Faithful1, thanks for the link. I had forgotten about another question about this part: 1936-1945: B: Luciano Acting boss: Costello [Joe Valachi says "Chee Gusae" and Willie Moretti were briefly acting bosses around 1936 or so] U: Genovese Acting underboss: Willie Moretti C: Costello Acting consigliere: Alessandro "Sandino" Pandolfo
If they had the official underboss and the official consigliere who were free and active, what was the need for the acting underboss and acting consigliere? I thought they put "active" ones only when the "official" ones are in prison or can't be inolved in the mafia activity in that moment for some other reason. Well, Genovese was on the run in Italy from murder charges, but Costello had no problems in that moment, why did they need to support him with an active consigliere? Edit: or, if Costello was acting boss for the imprisoned Luciano, how could he be the official consigliere at the same time? Why didn't they make Pandolfo official consigilere then? That's a question I can't answer. I'm not even positive that Pandolfo was the consigliere for the entire Luciano-Costello-Genovese crime family. Our only source is Joe Valachi, and his writing style is very confusing. It seems that Pandolfo was the consigliere, but other times he sounds like Strollo's top adviser alone.
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Re: Who was the mysterious 'Sandino'
[Re: Philip_Lombardo]
#899755
11/26/16 07:34 AM
11/26/16 07:34 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,679 Chicago
CabriniGreen
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Another question that comes to mind, actually maybe two questions.... Why was Joe Adonis continually passed over? And, do you think there is any chance of resentment between either Costello and Adonis, or Luciano and Adonis over this? ( These are hypothetical questions, so if anyone feels like answering, or has a different take on it, I'd like to hear....) There were always the rumors that Adonis and Lucky fell out in Italy, over Adonis not stopping Genovese. Maybe he DIDNT do it outta spite? How do you think Adonis would have taken being passed over for Moretti, Costellos cousin. I know Moretti was a capable, respected guy, but Adonis was a fuckin powerhouse, it doesn't seem possible they would have been able to deny him an administrative post, kinda how Costello couldn't deny Vito the underboss spot once Moretti went. Why Moretti and not Adonis? Why does Pandolfo ( who I'm assuming,wasn't part of the Luciano click) never move up when Lucky and Vito are out of picture? Why does Costello move up and not Adonis? It's something I always found curious.... Also Faithful, while I got your attention, what do you think about this passage, it's about Adonis becoming the NY drug lord of the late thirties, and using the drug money to fund O' Dwyers mayoral campaign...... https://books.google.com/books?id=YMpNBA...erg&f=false On the Tony Bender thing, was it possible there was a " split" in the Genovese family, similar to what happened in the Gambinos with Castellano and Dellacroce? With Genovese locked up,and Bender running Vito's " faction", maybe that's why he pegged Pandolfo as consigliere? Because from his vantage point of a soldier, with Bender running things, and Pandolfo advising him, maybe to HIM, Pandolfo WAS the consigliere, as he was performing all the functions of one, as far as he could tell.
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Re: Who was the mysterious 'Sandino'
[Re: Faithful1]
#918267
08/11/17 03:37 PM
08/11/17 03:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 135
barry
Made Member
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Made Member
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Re: Who was the mysterious 'Sandino'
[Re: Faithful1]
#918354
08/13/17 02:30 AM
08/13/17 02:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815 Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,815
Larry's Bar
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See this is one of those questions that I look at like........ So it went, what? Lucky- Boss Genovese - UnderBoss Pandolfo- Consiglieri? Costello - Capo-regime Joe Adonis - Capo-regime
Really?
Then Lucky goes to jail, and it's.... Genovese -Boss Costello - UnderBoss? Pandolfo - Consiglieri?
Then Genovese flees and its.....
Costello - Boss Moretti - UnderBoss Pandolfo - Consiglieri? ( still?)
So Mike Miranda makes consigliere in 57? Who was this Pandolfo aligned with? I'm assuming a holdover from the oldMasseria is group. Did he have a crew, and if so, who were the successors?
I actually got another question, did Maranzano start the actual hierarchy, or was it already in place? Was there always a consigliere position, or was that created by either Maranzano or Luciano?
Tony Bender would have been number three before or after Miranda? Frank Costello was the consigliere when Luciano was boss. So the chart may be more like this: 1931: Boss: Lucky Luciano Underboss: Vito Genovese Consigliere: Saverio Pollaccia (k. 1932) 1932: B: Luciano U: Genovese C: Frank Costello 1936-1945: B: Luciano Acting boss: Costello [Joe Valachi says "Chee Gusae" and Willie Moretti were briefly acting bosses around 1936 or so] U: Genovese Acting underboss: Willie Moretti C: Costello Acting consigliere: Alessandro "Sandino" Pandolfo 1947-1948: B: Costello U: Genovese C: Pandolfo (died in 1948) 1948-1957: B: Costello U: Genovese C: unknown [Michele Miranda was the next known consigliere, but we don't know when he was promoted to this position; we know he was the consigliere under Genovese] 1957-1969: B: Genovese U: Gerry Catena C: Miranda Hope that helps. He died in 1948? Then it is a different person I am thinking of.
"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
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