That shine went after gotti to make a name for himself and where did that get him...blacks are known as bullies and are usually kept in check by the mexicans who hate blacks more than the kkk.
Typical shine move. Gotti was an elderly guy and in declining health. Gee, lets all go beat up Carmine Persico who is in his 80's and claim we beat up a mob boss.

I dont think gotti was sick at the time of the incident. I tink late 97 or 98 he got sick. Also its not like Gotti didnt do anything to piss the guy off. Lastly who cares if he got beat up wasnt he a murderer. I have no sympathy for any killers

Well put JCrusher fuck him if he took a licking too bad.

That is a different debate my friend. I was just responding to the guys claim that Gotti was afraid of jail.

I think it took 7 years before Gene was jailed!
He was out on bail for the entire time! Apparently Carneglia insulted the 92 yr old judge shortly before sentencing!
I am amazed they never won any appeal to have the sentence reduced.

Is it true that Gotti often used to treat Frankie like a lackey? I'm thinking of one of Gravano's stories in his book when they were in prison and John yelled at Frankie in front of everybody and treated him like a punk.
Also I think Frankie's son was a made guy, whatever happened to him?

Sammy Gravano is a lying, sexually confused midget, who turned his wife and children into dope dealers. Enough said.

Tore LoCascio is retired and living in Florida, and he made millions of dollars in the tech industry both before and after he was active in the mob. That demonstrates intelligence.

Now look at Tore, and look at Sammy's kids. His daughter's a fat pig with a bastard Black child, and his son's a chronically unemployed loser who believes that his father's name still counts for something. Pathetic .

for sure, frank kept himself old school his whole life..until gotti ruined him..

he was sick those years

I think so, too. His cancer was slow growing and the type that breaks you down over YEARS. Not all cancers kill you right away. And a lot of them are manageable, if not curable. But like I said up top, you don't want to get sick in stir. They literally hope that you die to save some money.

by 98 he was in very bad shape, when jr went to see him ,he was in springfield, medical it is on video, his sickness was not very public ,if i remember at that time

Oh don't get me wrong I completely agree about Sammy, I was just wondering if that incident in particular was true. That's good to hear about his kid though... Frankie Loc was a stand up guy, even if his son wasn't made I doubt he'd have made any kind of deal with the g-man.
Do you know anything specifically about what kind of technology business he used to have? Computers, home electrics?

I guess that means the story about Frankie wanting to whack John isn't true either...

tori was a captain.

it's obvious he did his time seeing that he got hospitalized while doing so

he could've been a great underboss

I always found the orange story in prison Gravano later told rather believable.

I dont believe it for a second.

and then Gotti plotted to kill Frank with some Aryan Brotherhood yadda yadda yadda. makes for a good novel. nothing more nothing less.

I agree Cheech, i never bought into Gravano's assertion. A few reasons why he would lie about Gotti and LoCascio.
1) Gravano wanted to imply Gotti even treated his consig badly which would perhaps add some justification about Gravano flipping.
2) Gravano was still in bed with the feds, maybe the fbi thought bringing that up would split the family up and cause dissent.
3) maybe the feds wanted to cause bad blood between Tore and jr Gotti.

Regardless, i never bought the plot.

Frank LoC did appeal his conviction more than once and just recently a year or 2 ago for insufficient evidence and lost all his attempts,like he said im in jail for being with my friend J Gotti ,he was not consiglere for long that put him in that room and had 1 arrest i think ,he got screwed,and he is sick now,

In that particular case, and judging by the law enforcement accounts of the altercation, Gotti started the whole problem by being an a-hole. Granted, nobody here was there (including me), so we can only go by second and third-hand accounts of the situation. But every report I've read about that incident states that Gotti hurled a racial epithet at the guy, and then they had words. Then the next day the guy assaulted Gotti. My take on the situation is that Gotti, with that big-city Mafia boss mentality, acted as if the prison was his own personal domain, and that he was the King of that domain; so he felt comfortable throwing his weight around.

And Gotti was not that old -- he was 55 at the time, and he wouldn't be diagnosed with cancer for several more years. I saw video of Gotti as late as January of 1998 I believe, and he looked fit and robust. Those five video clips of Gotti talking with Victoria and her son and Peter Gotti were leaked to the press and posted online. Gotti looked healthy.

I think John was so used to being an isolated, protected boss who was used to having others do his dirty work for him that he forgot what it was like to actually be down in the trenches.

Gotti was a mafia boss; he was no saint. Yet so many people on here take offense that somebody had the nerve to actually punch Gotti. Like Gotti, although he was a mafia boss and a killer (and probably a drug dealer as well) was some sort of untouchable, mythical figure that was beyond reproach. It's weird how so many guys willingly admit that Gotti was all of the above, yet they still seem to hold him in high esteem. That's strange. Weird, convoluted sense of ethics.

Yeah. Gotti started that shit by being racist and throwing his weight around. The guy beat up Gotti fair and square.

Gotti thought he could command fear and respect just because of who he was like he was Galante or something.

It's different times though and Gotti & Galante would get their asses handed to them if they didn't have their goons with them.

You have to fall in line now.

Gotti was a different breed than Galante. Apparently Lilo was the kinda guy who would go out and murder somebody personally if he wanted, regardless of his position at the top of the hierarchy.
He was unusually tough and fearless even in his 60s. He's been rumored to have participated in over 70 murders, most of which I wouldn't be surprised if he'd done them himself.
Of course he'd get his ass handed to him by a 200lbs black man, but that man would have to look over his shoulder the rest of his life as chances are Carmine would personally stick a pair of shears through his ear the day after.
Gotti was apparently good with his fists also but he was never as crazy and fearless, which is why he paid the AB to take him out.

I suspect a lot of these 'tough, fearless' mobsters are not quite as tough and fearless as they are often portrayed, at least not when they are in a one-on-one situation. It's easy to play the tough, fearless role when you have an army of henchman at your beck and call. And a guy like Gotti gets credited with being this prolific, vicious murderer and such, but how many guys did Gotti personally kill -- with his own hands? Barking out orders to underlings and having your henchman do the dirty work is how a lot of these guys build their 'vicious' reputations. A lot of these guys, of course, are evil and sinister and underhanded, but a lot of them are probably not really 'tough' or 'violent' themselves in a physical sense. And when you get a guy like Gotti and stick him in a prison without his army, all of a sudden he becomes mortal.

Which is why I said in the beginning that Galante was a different breed from Gotti. You think Galante had an army with him in jail? He'd been there for more than 10 years.. everybody forgets about you when you go away. It's a well known fact Galante was a vicious psychopath, he was even diagnosed as such in jail.
I'm not sure about Gotti, but he was never as feared as Galante was. His fear mostly stemmed from the media and not from the street rep.

good post about galente. in Vincent Teresa book, which came out years ago, he says of galente, while serving his time "the cigar" [galente] got whatever he wanted, nobody defied galente not even the guards. he ruled that joint. he was a different kind. scaring, scary people. nobody feared gotti like they feared galente!

Why do you think these vicious henchmen followed orders from Galante and Gotti? Soft and weak guys usually don't last too long in the criminal world. If Gotti and Galante were soft and weak, the vicious henchmen would have sensed it and they would have been dead long ago. You act like these capos and bosses were regular people who were pick up off the street one day and annointed as capos and bosses.

I think what he was saying is that Gotti & Galante, while tough in their own right, would probably lose more fights than they would win in prison and a lot of the fear they command (particularly Galante) is because of how much power they had and how intemperate they were.

Nothing soft and weak about them physically or even mentally. It's just that their physical prowess does not match up to their aura.

Exactly! That's what I was trying to convey.

Take other mafia bosses for example -- guys like Carlo Gambino and Paul Castellano: both those guys were feared and had a lot of power and sway in the criminal world. But if you took either guy out of his element and put him in some prison out here on the West Coast (or even in another country), what would you be left with: an old, physically weak guy who would be easy pickings for any random jailhouse predator.

The power of a typical mafia boss is sort of transitory. They have a lot of power when they are in their own element (and when backed up by their organization), but when isolated and moved to another area (or placed in a prison), they become very ordinary.

I'm sure a lot of guys in the mob are physically tough and capable, but simply being a mobster or belonging to a mob family does not make one a physical beast or a proficient, highly-skilled fighter. And sitting around in social clubs, smoking cigars, and feasting on gourmet foods doesn't do much for one's physical abilities.

So now we're judging the mobsters by their boxing/martial arts skills? I get your point man, it's just not that particularly interesting.
A powerful man is a powerful man, no matter his physical abilities. By your logic you can take the president and he wouldn't hold any power in the Himalayas or wherever... ALL power is transitory.