Three of the most powerful Jewish guys were Lansky, Humphries and Maishe Rockman. Rockman was extremely tight with Bill Presser and the brother in law to John Scalish. He was considered the Meyer Lansky of Cleveland.

Humphreys was Welsh.

Everybody down at Tammany Hall

I think being Italian really mattered in the mob at one time. And being Sicilian mattered even more and still matters somewhat. I can show circumstantial proof...

Notice how the best undercover agents always pretend to be Sicilians and not mainlanders? It is as if being Sicilian gave them a fast track to becoming a trusted insider. Portraying a Sicilian cover allowed them to become right hand men to the top people without even having to clip anyone to prove loyalty. Salvadore Vizzini and Joe Pistone were Sicilians pretending to be corrupt Sicilians. Joachim Garcia was a Cuban pretending to be a corrupt Sicilian, but always Sicilian was their cover.

Notice how Al Capone was sort of sent away to prison after the new Commission acknowledged him as a mafia father. He could never join before because he wasn't Sicilian. Then they let him in and he is sort of shelved into a prison supposedly to take the heat off the mafia in general, but I think it was also a move to appease the old time Sicilians that didn't approve of Capone being a Don.

Notice how many of the post 1931 bosses to fall in the classic age of gangsters were non Sicilian and/or non Italian? Dutch Schultz, Lepke, Siegel?

And then there are Gaggi's comments about how (at the time he said it) the Gambino family was a Sicilian establishment. I am certain Gaggi didn't approve of Gotti partially because Gotti was not Sicilian. Certain of it.

There are mob tales of sit downs over beefs that did not end in capital punishment but rather a payment of money as recompense. I am sure that if Chris Demeo was an insider Sicilian that someone could have gone to bat for him and make a show of force and even offer to pay his way out of the beef. At that time the mafia in America was a large army, and the Gambinos were feared. They could speak forcefully to the Colombians and give them an offer they couldn't refuse.

Maybe you guys are right. But I wonder how it would have went if "Chris Demeo" was not a wanna be Italian like he was, but was instead a real Sicilian with nepotistic connections in America and back in the old country. It would be a matter of pride for the Gambinos to kill a Sicilian Italian just because some Colombians demanded it.

Joe Watts of the Gambino's had significant power and was very well respected.

What was he like part German and part Italian?

Jack Garcia pretending to be Sicilian didn't mean shit to Greg DePalma. Trust me on that. He could have said that his family was from Tuscany and it wouldn't have mattered to Greg. We're talking about a guy whose track record for taking a buck off an easy mark was so well documented that the Feds set the operation in motion BEFORE Greg was even released from prison. He was as predictable as the sunrise. I'm sure you can look that up in that fat fuck's book. And I don't mean to pick on you, Alfa. You're a bright guy and I've told you that before. But what I'm saying about Greg is common knowledge to people who live here and spent even a little time around the guy. Yet it's still not something that you're going to find in books or on the Internet.

As for the rest of your post, yes, the Sicilian thing mattered a great deal back then. But just like everything else in that life it has eroded more and more over time (and I'm obviously speaking about the American Mafia). Nowadays if your name ends in a vowel and you bring in a bag of money you're halfway there.

edit

By the time Greg got home from the Scores mess, his son was in a coma, Willie was in witness protection, Fat Pete was wearing a wire, and the older Gambino guys in Bronx were put with either Tore or Braciole (not to mention Wahoo).


Of course it was an embarrassment. And it wasn't the first time, either. But I have to say, in Greg's defense, that he was dying a slow miserable death from cancer and emphysema anyway. He knew that he would have died in prison under a plea anyway. And love him or hate him, Greg DePalma was a stand-up guy. Even in death no one can take that away from him.

PB, Did you ever hear of this Petey Chops that was in Depalmas crew that they tuned up at Bloomingdales? He was supposedly a Bronx numbers guy.

Yeah, that was ridiculous. Greg definitely went about it the wrong way. But Pete wasn't in the right either. When you're a made guy and you get called in, you go. End of story.

Chris Rosenberg was whacked in 1979 or 1980 I believe... you honestly mean to tell me that they wouldn't have given him up to the quickly-growing Cuban/Colombian force just because he'd originally be Sicilian... in 1980?

Of course they would have. He was unpredictable and expendable. And if anyone wants further proof that Paul would give up one of his own, then you don't have to look any further than Frank Piccolo. Paul handed him up to the Westside guys on a silver platter not long after the Rosenberg incident. Same time frame. And the Piccolo murder was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of the Gambino guys. But that's another story all together.

I believe so, but confirm with PB

I won't deny that Greg DePalma was a big gigantic sucker for a bribe. I read about him in Making Jack Falcone by Joachim himself. Too funny.

Yeah but you know what I am about to say right? In that example, Paul giving Piccolo up was one Italian turning over an Italian to another group of Italians.

And everyone can laugh at what I am about to say, but I really think Henry Hill's Sicilian heritage from his mother helped him with Paul Vario. Paul Vario was Sicilian.

edit: Who knows. Maybe the mafia lusted after you if you were Sicilian because certain members knew that you could potentially help produce and move "H" from the old country into the USA. Big Money $$$

Did not know he gave Piccolo.You are right,thats the thing that got him killed,among other stuff.



Alfa buddy,you really got your mind set that being a sicilian is such a good and sure thing in the mob,huh?Look at the history there were Sicilian bosses and there were bosses that are not.Frank Costello was calabrian,and he was one of the best bosses that ever lived.

^^^^What Alex just said.

And this isn't a swipe at the Sicilians because I love them. They're a lot like Calabrians in many ways. But the Genovese Family, post Luciano-Genovese, rarely had any use for them. They remain the most powerful and influential family today, yet they actually shy away from making both Italian and Sicilian born members. Look at the member lists if you need proof of that.

Of course there are a few exceptions to that rule---Barney's a big one. But generally speaking, they're just fine with making second and third generation Italian Americans, no matter what part of Italy they're descended from.

Alfa, apples and oranges man. With Vario it was a little more personal... Henry grew up around him, knew him since he was a kid. Henry's mother and the Varios were originally from the same town in Sicily, that's a big deal.
The Sicilian thing was true but I think it stopped being a factor after the 50s, maybe except for the Bonannos. A lot of great bosses were originally Napolitano or Calabrese. Later on, maybe the French and Pizza connection had something to do with it since it was always good to have connections back in Sicily, but it was all relative to the drug business.

Hey I could be wrong. It's no big deal.

One word about Al Capone.

In the movie script turned fictional biography The Last testament of Lucky Luciano, it was claimed that Al Capone was sent away to jail on a BS gun rap to take the heat off the mob.

The dates add up.

The Saint Valentines Day massacre was February 14, 1929.

The fabled Atlantic City Conference where Lucky Luciano rallied allies across the country to rise up against the Mustaches was in May 1929, between the 13th and 16th of that month.

It was supposedly then that all of the bosses agreed that Al needed to go away to take heat off of them.

The St Valentine's Day hit two months earlier brought A LOT of heat.

Then, right on schedule, The Big Fella started his gun charge bid in May of 29.

I really honestly suspect he was sent away partly to appease some of the old Mustaches from Sicily.

Even Joe Bonanno expressed outrage in his own biography that someone like Al Capone would be acknowledged as a "Father". To Joe Bonanno, Cosa Nostra meant us Sicilians, not us Italians. In other words, a secret government by and for Sicilians based in South Italy in opposition to the mainland government.

Yeah, but Last Testament was bogus so anything you get from that book needs to be taken with a big grain of sea salt.

This is actually a good question and I have no idea but the richest guys were definitely the guys PB references from the Westside. One of those guys has net worth over $100M easy, not too mention another booming business.

A hundred million? His property alone is worth more than that .

well I didn't want to use the $500M as no one would believe that except for 1 poster here,

No more angry lobster though, sad, but they still have a great spot in Nj that is very good amongst other successful and legitimate businesses

They were thirty years ahead of the times in Tribeca. When they opened that joint DeNiro was still poor and dating Black chicks on the sneak on Bleecker Street.

DeNiro was from Bleecker street,Where did Pacino grow up,somewhere near the zoo..?

Pacino was from Southern Boulevard. South Bronx.

PB I've been meaning to ask you but I didn't wanna bother you with a PM. It's about Marty, was he really a knockaround NY guy before his fame? Also was he ever on the record with anybody like Pesci was? I watched Mean Streets a while back and Charlie is obviously based on him at least partially. Loved the movie, but I was curious about his past, pre-fame.

Oh i thought wrong,i was thinking of belmont.Were there a lot of Italians in that part of south bronx?