Genovese Family murder of NYPD detective, Anthony Venditti.

http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/a-mean-street-in-queens-to-kill-a-cop

Never heard about this. The year is 1987. Fritzy Giovanelli is involved in the murder of an NYPD detective and attempted murder of his partner. He somehow got away with it.

the cops shot each other

He "got away with" it because he didn't do it. And the lady cop's testimony had more holes in it than the brain of the average troll on this board.

If Fritzy went off the reservation and killed a cop behind Vince's back (who NEVER would have okayed such a thing), he'd have been trunked within a fucking week.

Of course their boss didn't okay it. The article doesn't say that. The cops were undercover. They weren't wearing uniform. They wouldn't necessarily have known that they were murdering cops. The article shares the motive for why Giovanelli, Maltese and Gualtieri likely killed Venditti.

And I am sure Giovanelli getting off had nothing to do with rigging the jury and/or threatening the lives of jurist/s family members. And I am sure it had nothing to do with a prosecution witness being threatened into changing his testimony - he later ended up murdered in a mob burial ground. A boss of a family done this several times in the 80's so it isn't exactly an alien concept.

Lots of honest people end up getting taken apart on the witness stand by the best defense lawyers - sadly. Lots of dishonest people get off - in all walks of life. A bit harsh to judge a victim because she can't remember perfectly something that happened in the space of a frantic 30 seconds to minute when her first instinct was protecting her life and/or trying to save her partner.

I suppose we are inclined to think differently but my head would say the mobsters did it.


------- Good read, HairyKnuckles.

http://www.russbaker.com/archives/New%20York%20Magazine%20-%20The%20Cop%20Out,%20December.htm

Dug out another article. Real good read.

No, it's a bit harsh to moralize everybody and everything and judge everyone guilty without knowing what actually happened.

But I agree with you about one thing, we are inclined and entitled to think differently. And I'm inclined to think that Officer Burke is a lying pig who lied on the stand on multiple occasions. Just like most cops do.

And if a bullet found her forehead that night, we wouldn't be rehashing this story again. Because I honestly believe you when you say that you've never heard it before. But we've discussed it here many times in the past.

Moe, I think it's well known that the Chin went nuts when he heard about this whole thing. Just from the things you DO know about Vincent, he doesn't sounds like the type of guy who would order, or okay the murder of a cop... logically speaking. For fuck's sake the guy used to go around in a bathrobe acting crazy, why would he want the extra heat of a cop murder in his family.

The truth is always grey, not black or white. You can't automatically say the mobsters were guilty and the cop was telling the truth. You know the police have their own blue line of silence, their own "omerta" that is still prevalent, arguably more so than the real "omerta" of today's mob.

Remember how Joe Pistone would vehemently defend Lin Devecchio? That's just ONE example off the top of my head.

Exactly. Those cocksuckers and their Blue Wall of Silence are as bad the wiseguys and their Omerta. And for fuck's sale, don't come back with, "Well, cops don't go around murdering people." Not in light of the riots going on in this country today.

And yes, Malandrino probably remembers me posting this in the past (like I said, Moe, this is old news that has been discussed here MANY times). But Vince went CRAZY. He conducted his own investigation, and he found Fritzy not guilty. If he judged him guilty, Fritzy would have been left dead in the street as a message to the cops that "We take care of our own." Just like they did with Gus Farace.

That's good enough for me because Vince was smarter than half the NYPD, not to mention your average juror. There's an old saying about jury duty here in New York: If you're not smart enough to get out of it, you're not smart enough to take part in the verdict. It makes for a terrible irony.

But if he didn't do it, who did? What was the word on the streets, any allegations?

The cops probably killed this guy .

(That's just a take on when Gotti said "Maybe the cops killed this Paul").

But Gotti was lying in that case. Why would the cops kill this cop, did he discover proof of corruption?

This is a off topic q,but if Canterino got the crew after Gigante when was Fritzy named capo?Was he ever a capo at all?

It was just sarcasm, Dwalin. Nothing more. I was just trying to bring a little levity to a terrible situation (the death of a cop).

But were there any other suspects? If Gigante didn't punish these ones, they were not involved according to him, but who was involved then? Was it a mafia crime at all? Was it another mafia family who killed him? What was the alleged motive anyway? What's your opinion and the opinions of others? I barely know anything about this case, only heard once about it on another forum.

The crew most probably split between several guys in late 1980s/early 1990s.

I don't know about other suspects, and I don't care. But what I DO know about the Genovese family is that they don't just kill people on the spur of the moment. They're too meticulous about such things. I'm not defending murderers here. I always say that if you kill people, you probably belong in jail (the exception being if someone harmed your wife or children---rape, etc.)

And if this was a spur of the moment incident (Fritzy not knowing that they were cops, but going off in a fit of rage), that only strengthens my argument. Because Vince would kill you just as fast if you flew off the handle and killed a "civilian" without permission.

But moralists don't want to hear any of this stuff. If you're a guinea fucking gangster you must have blood on your hands. And no matter how far your descendants distance themselves from criminal activity, they're still spending blood money.

I've often heard Moe say that he feels no sympathy for the wives of wiseguys who end up doing life. They knew what they were getting themselves into. Well, going by that logic, and adding into it the fact that the descendants of mob guys are still using blood money, then the Kennedy women have no one to blame but themselves. Right?

So I guess that that drug addled pig who went down in flames with John F. Kennedy Jr. knew what she was getting into. Right? I mean, after all, his grandfather made a fucking fortune from booze. Yet it was good enough for his descendants to become political royalty. But when it comes to the Italians, the wives and children should know better, and they deserve their pain.

Sorry for derailing, but this is a long time coming. I've seen Moe defend the Kennedys here, and I can look up the post. But I've done that before and didn't get a response. He's a moralist, but a selective one.

And fuck the Kennedys. Every last one of them got exactly what they deserved.

well put my friend.

fuckem

It's a case by case thing, you know. I don't feel much sympathy for Lin Scarpa, but there are definitely some wives who didn't know and some wives who just fell head over heels with a dirty husband. It depends.

EDIT: Linda Schiro. Here I went thinking Lin DeVeccio and Scarpa were married x]

says the guy from Nasheville....
fuck me.

Que?

Vincent Gigante had nothing to do with it! I didn't imply otherwise.

But it would have taken an implausible amount of coincidences for Giovanelli and his cohorts not to have been involved in this murder of a cop.

They were never exonerated of murder. They were firmly believed to be guilty but the statute of limitations had run out. And they were all eventually punished under a RICO statute. Even the theories that implicate the female cop have nothing to do with the mobster's being innocent. They have to do with incompetence and negligence on her part.

I honestly don't know why you constantly turn this into a racial thing and bring The Kennedy's into it.

What the fuck do The Kennedy's have to do with mobsters killing a cop?!

I am honestly baffled here.

I could give a flying fuck about The Kennedy's but your comments are extremely tasteless regardless of that.

It seems to me you have a grudge against them because of their history going after the mob. That's your prerogative. But don't let it taint every interaction with me. I can't help what I am or who my ancestors were.

There are plenty of great Italian Americans but the Genovese Crime Family, Steven Crea, Barney Bellomo and The Basciano's aren't among them.

Now you can say you aren't a mob apologist, you can keep making crass comments about the feds and NYPD police, you can rhapsodize about "The Westside", you can call me a "boozehound", you can joke about the ex-president having his brains blown out to try and provoke me and you can make idle threats like "tread lightly". Fire away.

You have made about twenty diatribes against me now and this is the first time I have stooped to your level.

Just ignore my comments in the future if they upset you so much. It isn't hard.

And I may be morally selective for taking a hard stance on mobsters and their families - if you are referring to Massino's wife she was implicated in his crimes - and not going after The Kennedy's because of the links their father had, but you implied I was anti-semitic because of a thread I (naively) posted and apologised for.

I find that ironic considering your past comments about blacks, Irish and Latino's. Maybe your racially selective?

Moe, you have no friggin respect. Ignore your comments, you mean your constant trolling, give me a break. Pizza is right, you are wrong. The end.

I have no respect?

When have I ever made a derogatory comment about Italians or attacked him in a thread?

He is constantly attacking people in threads and everyone turns a blind eye to it.

I do have respect. I have been nothing but polite and courteous towards him and I get nothing back but vitriol. Respect is a two way street.

I make the odd humorous comment (some of my comments are admittedly silly) but it's not near every comment. Most of that is for the shout box. I never start threads just to provoke people.

He could have disagreed with me without having the attitude and accusatory tone.

If he thought for one minute that Giovanelli killed a civilian, let alone a cop, in a fit of rage, Fritzy would have been dead a week later.


The only crime there is that the cop named Burke walked away. Because she was obviously complicit.


Not guilty is not guilty.


Yet on November 30th of last year, you weren't man enough to answer my reply to your defense of that family:



And here's a link to the post if anyone thinks I altered one word: http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...true#Post816150


I don't have to do a fucking thing. You don't like it, you can ignore MY comments. Because I've pm'd you ten fucking times to try to talk things out, and not once did you have the decency to reply. And don't give my any shit that you're not obligated. It's called common decency.


Please. I've lived in the Bronx for 55 years. You live in a country where 99% of the population is the color of Elmer's glue. You live in New York City, you'll find that there's good and bad everywhere.

And it's not all Irishmen that bother me. Just you. A disrespectful punk kid who deliberately started a thread on the Holocaust knowing exactly where it would go. You're a Jew hater and a thinly veiled one at that.

moe has a right to speak his mind as does everyone else.

You have a problem with me, Binnie?

And he has the right to be called a retard for doing so.

and he has the right to call you one too.

The thing is that law and morals aren't one thing and aren't interchangeable, Moe. If one breaks the law, he's not automatically morally wrong, just like if one's a complete piece of shit he can still be perfectly within the law.
My point is that you can't paint people with such a broad brush... mobsters, just like politicians, cops, lawyers are people too. Sure most of them are bad people from a moral standpoint and in society's eyes but they're not that different from most of your everyday businessmen.. especially the last decade or so when murder has been at an all time low.

You can't honestly say, in this day and age, that the cops are the true heroes of society... I would say that there's like 25 other professions I'd call heroes first before I'd call a cop one. Firefighters, doctors, nurses, EMTs, they're much better people in general than cops from a realistic moral standpoint, and not the usual Hollywood bullshit they spoonfeed us.



Is that true? If PB has really PM'd you a dozen times to work things out, I think it is a little rude not to answer at all. I've had my fair share of debates, even fights with PB, especially when I was new here and one thing he's always done was reach out by PM and talk things out, it's his style. He tries to be friends with everybody in here. After that we managed to work things out.

I'll give you an example since this thread's about cops. It was around the time of all the cop shooting innocent people. I was pretty pissed with PB because I thought he was a killer-cop apologist and we had a debate in the General boards. We talked it through and I found out that wasn't the case at all... you catch the irony here, in this thread?

So, not even replying isn't the best way to make friends here, Moe.. and all that frustration builds up until it explodes - and then we get threads like these.

Just my 2 cents.

Well put, Malandrino. Whenever I've had problems with board members here in the past, I've tried to work it out through private messages. That's what the feature is for.

Here was Moe's response back on April 12th to my invitation to work things out. And I'm providing the link to back it up:



http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...true#Post837224