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Why do dying gangsters refuse to make statements?
#862077
10/02/15 03:04 PM
10/02/15 03:04 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,788
Dwalin2011
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,788
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Have been thinking lately: while I understand the so-called street "code of honor" about not giving up your friends/accomplices and not testifying to get you sentence reduced, I was wondering, what about the situations when a gangster has been mortally wounded and is dying, why do they refuse to identify the killers if they recognized them? I mean, killing you is one of the worst things they can do to you and, if you are in no position anymore to take revenge by the street code, using weapons, what's the point of protecting the people who KILLED YOU? I understand loyalty to friends, but loyalty to enemies is absurd imo. Like that gangster from the Chicago St.Valentine Day massacre who said "nobody shot me". How does make even little sense? Even if he hates cops more than gang rivals, he is dying, so naming the murderer wouldn't be "ratting", it would be "revenge", the only one a dying person is in a position to use.
What do you think? What's the point of refusing to identify somebody who killed you? I can even understand Frank Costello not identifying Gigante because at least he survived and, if necessary, was in a position to take care of things by himself. But a DYING person protecting THEIR OWN MURDERERS is simply laughable and stupid in my opinion. How does this even fit into the street code?
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: Why do dying gangsters refuse to make statements?
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#862091
10/02/15 03:39 PM
10/02/15 03:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935
Past caring, then hang a left
helenwheels
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935
Past caring, then hang a left
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Arnold Rothstein. The legend says that when the cops asked who shot him he replied "My mother did it"
All God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.
I never met anyone who didn't have a very smart child. What happens to these children, you wonder, when they reach adulthood?
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Re: Why do dying gangsters refuse to make statements?
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#862093
10/02/15 03:43 PM
10/02/15 03:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 108
NYC
tenpin477
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 108
NYC
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A) They might target your family
B) These guys see Cosa Nostra as a thing of honor. Dying like a man brings great respect, even if they won't be here to enjoy it.
"Name one thing in this world that is not negotiable." Walter Hartwell White
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Re: Why do dying gangsters refuse to make statements?
[Re: Beanshooter]
#862109
10/02/15 06:07 PM
10/02/15 06:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,788
Dwalin2011
OP
Underboss
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Do you or anyone have any other examples besides Costello?
I am sure I read many examples, but I keep forgetting all those names, right now I have only 2 examples in mind: 1) Frank Gusenberg from the St Valentine Day Massacre who said "nobody shot me" 2) Benjamin Weiner killed in New York in 1948 by Bonanno associates Willie Rosenberg and Santo Bretagna. He was still alive when the police got to him, but just shook his head when asked who did it (not that it helped those 2, they fried on the chair anyway)
Last edited by Dwalin2011; 10/02/15 06:08 PM.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: Why do dying gangsters refuse to make statements?
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#862233
10/03/15 05:00 PM
10/03/15 05:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
Moe_Tilden
ForeverBotheringIranians
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ForeverBotheringIranians
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,094
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Courtesy of this 1963 Jimmy Breslin article.... https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2...20456&hl=en One of the guys was a thin, dark-haired, soft-spoken 28 year-old named Carmine Persico. They call him Junior, but he has become a big man in South Brooklyn for the regular underworld organization
Early on the Sunday morning of May 19, Persico and another gangster were coming out of a girl's house when a truck came past them and rifle shots came out of the back.
Both Persico and the other gangster were hit.
Persico with five bullets in him, was taken to the hospital. Detectives quickly walked in to question him.
"Look, you're going to die any minute now," one of them told Persico. "Before you go, why don't you straighten this thing out and tell us who did it? You know who it was. What's the difference if you talk now? You're going to die.
Persico shook his head slowly. "I don't know anything," he told the detectives. They kept talking to him, and Persico kept saying, "I don't know anything," until they left.
I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
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Re: Why do dying gangsters refuse to make statements?
[Re: Moe_Tilden]
#862280
10/03/15 11:17 PM
10/03/15 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
Ted
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
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Courtesy of this 1963 Jimmy Breslin article.... https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2...20456&hl=en One of the guys was a thin, dark-haired, soft-spoken 28 year-old named Carmine Persico. They call him Junior, but he has become a big man in South Brooklyn for the regular underworld organization
Early on the Sunday morning of May 19, Persico and another gangster were coming out of a girl's house when a truck came past them and rifle shots came out of the back.
Both Persico and the other gangster were hit.
Persico with five bullets in him, was taken to the hospital. Detectives quickly walked in to question him.
"Look, you're going to die any minute now," one of them told Persico. "Before you go, why don't you straighten this thing out and tell us who did it? You know who it was. What's the difference if you talk now? You're going to die.
Persico shook his head slowly. "I don't know anything," he told the detectives. They kept talking to him, and Persico kept saying, "I don't know anything," until they left. Who shot him?
"I die outside; I die in jail. It don't matter to me," -John Franzese
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Re: Why do dying gangsters refuse to make statements?
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#862358
10/04/15 01:36 PM
10/04/15 01:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 854
Fleming_Ave
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 854
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Have been thinking lately: while I understand the so-called street "code of honor" about not giving up your friends/accomplices and not testifying to get you sentence reduced, I was wondering, what about the situations when a gangster has been mortally wounded and is dying, why do they refuse to identify the killers if they recognized them? I mean, killing you is one of the worst things they can do to you and, if you are in no position anymore to take revenge by the street code, using weapons, what's the point of protecting the people who KILLED YOU? I understand loyalty to friends, but loyalty to enemies is absurd imo. Like that gangster from the Chicago St.Valentine Day massacre who said "nobody shot me". How does make even little sense? Even if he hates cops more than gang rivals, he is dying, so naming the murderer wouldn't be "ratting", it would be "revenge", the only one a dying person is in a position to use.
What do you think? What's the point of refusing to identify somebody who killed you? I can even understand Frank Costello not identifying Gigante because at least he survived and, if necessary, was in a position to take care of things by himself. But a DYING person protecting THEIR OWN MURDERERS is simply laughable and stupid in my opinion. How does this even fit into the street code? Like you said, they hated cops more than other gangsters. And also they may not have been certain they were dying. Before Witness Protection they might have figured it was better to take their chances, than be an informant.
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Re: Why do dying gangsters refuse to make statements?
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#862362
10/04/15 02:25 PM
10/04/15 02:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 305
mchang93
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 305
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And apparently they wouldn't take you for your word if u were close to dying any way. Joey Chang told EMC "Timmy got me". Timmy was a nickname of one of zips with Stanfa. No one ever even entertained a jealousy motive or that maybe they caught Joey Chnag sharing info always beeen he was delusional and it was Joey,Mikey and the boys who did it. Not saying it wasn't just pointing out even if you rat on a guy as u lay wounded your word may not be taken as the truth. But was Timmy really one of the shooters? Did he switch from Stanfa to the Merlino faction? I think like many things in LCN we don't the whole story. Only people that testified were Natale a known bs artist and horsehead scafidi who said Mikey Chang held gun to his head and forced him to join hit party. Neither of those guys are believable in my book. Maybe I'm wrong but I think more was going on here then we are aware.
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Re: Why do dying gangsters refuse to make statements?
[Re: mchang93]
#862533
10/05/15 09:31 PM
10/05/15 09:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 203
K1NG6
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 203
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And apparently they wouldn't take you for your word if u were close to dying any way. Joey Chang told EMC "Timmy got me". Timmy was a nickname of one of zips with Stanfa. No one ever even entertained a jealousy motive or that maybe they caught Joey Chnag sharing info always beeen he was delusional and it was Joey,Mikey and the boys who did it. Not saying it wasn't just pointing out even if you rat on a guy as u lay wounded your word may not be taken as the truth. What was "Timmy's" real name? Do you know? I think I saw this mentioned on one of the Mob Talk videos before by George Anastasia, but he never gave a full name either. Just said that the feds speculated that Timmy may have been a name/nickname for one of Stanfa's gunmen. Did this Timmy really even exist? Or was Joey Chang just pulling something similar to the "I don't know who shot me" line by giving some generic name that he knew wouldn't be connected to anyone.
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