Aside from the innocent people: the 2 they never should of killed were undoubtedly Michael Salerno and Buddy Loungo. Those two muders were deception at its best.
Im sure pizza knows the ins and outs of that but in my opinion, those 2 precipitated almost everything.

Well without killing Luongo they never wouldve ascended to power.

So if they never killed Loungo there never wouldve been an 'Amuso and Casso'.

For me this 3.
Robert Kubecka/none/independent/August 11th 1989/Ordered It/ Murdered because his waste management business was in competition with the Lucchese waste management business, and for refusing to give in to extortion.

Donald Barstow/none/independent/August 11th 1989/Ordered It/ Murdered because his waste management business was in competition with the Lucchese waste management business, and for refusing to give in to extortion.

Frank Signorino/None/Unknown/Feburary 2nd 1993/Ordered It/ Signorio was Peter Chiodo's uncle, he was murdered to intimidate Chiodo who had become an informant after a murder attempt on his and his wife's uncle.

The first 2 was honest men that wanted to live honest, and for sure don't want to become martyrs; in raab 5 Fam the Kubecka sister was married with Barstow and was pregnant. So nobody want to die. Casso and Amuso could Easy decide to beaten up them or at worst shot in the legs; kill them was a mista as a men and as a mafioso,made only damage and the bad was all of the police that didn't protection him

The orders to kill Signorino for convince Chiodo of don't flip is born by a idiot psycopatic mind;don't word in Sicily where kills every parents of the rat. The murder convinced Chiodo of the casso madness and that is better flip.

Right... the Fat Pete murder, and then his sister, were probably two of their biggest "mistakes" if we can call them that. Sounds kind of callous but, is what it is.

I agree to an extent, especially Salerno.
Killing Luongo is realling what caused the family to split though. Also, jersey was close with Luongo and i believe thats the main reason jersey was sending amuso very light weight envelopes which almost caused that whole crew to die, and trust me, jersey came very close to being wiped off the face of the earth by casso and amuso.
Jersey was and is to this day, tight with the bronx faction.

Casso and Amuso made the exactly opposity of what a boss should do: kill the skipper (dilapi),presudemed rivals and orders to kill the best killer (chiodo) and even ordered to kill a entire faction (whack NJ).
For Barlow and Kubecka their murders made too much heat on the family. If they had tried to solve the question in silence would be better.

Yet, unfortunately these specific murders went unpunished (almost): the triggermen were never prosecuted, Salvatore Avellino who ordered the murders got 10 years only, and to Casso who authorized it the outcome didn't make difference anyway, because he got life sentences for other murders.
That the triggermen didn't get even 1 year in prison is a shame. I remember some movie where the main character (a policeman) says about the gangster: "He will pay for what he has done even if I have to make up the evidence with my own hands!". Maybe the real-life cops should have done the same in this case imo.

I'd be interested in knowing any people they should have killed.

I don't mean it in a moral way, like "killing is wrong." I mean it like: which murders that they ordered or committed did they have a good reason for? Which murders helped them? Which weren't fueled mainly by paranoia, etc???

Think you have to separate the two. Amuso orders hits but casso did weird shit like killing the guy fixing his house is there a truthful reason casso ever admitted why? They killed fat Pete's uncle probaly cassos call cause amusos in jail. The testa murder. Amusos had more to do within the lcn rules like Salerno was stealing or Bruno might be snitching. theres to many to pic. But the number one murder amuso and casso should have done but couldn't and probaly still be free was killing Pete savino. That could be the number 1 rat that crushed the genovese and lucheses.

Pete savino cooperation took Vic chin n casso off the street and caused chaos for a decade after.

Windows case was almost the same affect as the commission trial.

Benny kill is wrong for us that are honest people. Said that for me the murders of Luongo, Lino,Borriello,the Russian are accettable because that the "life" but kill testa,Dilapi and the other men because could be in the future a menace or for take his rackets or the entire whack NJ story is absurd. Casso and Amuso ordered to kill Chiodo,Signorino or d'arco this is stupid paranoia and said to the soldier "we'll kill you if don't do what we say you to do,but even for your money or if think that you're a rat"

You have to remember, amuso and casso were feeding bull shit to their men about guys being rats when they werent. They were doing this as a way to gain total power. A lot of good/ stand up guys died because of this.

Playing devils advocate, I suppose they had to kill Kubecka and Barstow. If the whole point is to monopolize the waste hauling industry on Long Island, you can't let renegades like them buck the system and possibly inspire others independents to do the same. I remember reading their company lasted for as long as it did because it stayed small and was not seen as a significant threat to the cartel. I guess they eventually got big enough where they got noticed.

I disagree Ivy,Kubecka e Barstow was a small troube for the waste monopoly;if the mobsters burn the camions or blow up the garage, the two men or will pay or declare bankrupty,instead killing them made 2 martyrs and too heat while this think must be done in silence
But it's my opinion.

If Casso let Amuso be boss, and was the real power behind the scenes, then why did Casso rat out Amuso and try to take sole power from him when he was captured?

Does that not kind of contradict the theory?

When Casso tried to orchestrate a coup, Amuso had the sway to stop it in its tracks.

It was said that Amuso made the business decisions. Obviously Casso had a certain level of autonomy as underboss. He had blessing to order hits and take care of the grittier side of things.

Casso refused the capo rank when Funari become consigliere and made the name of Amuso,so when become boss Amuso return the favor, gave more autonomy to Casso for get his dirty hands while he remained isolated from the streets.

Bingo.

I think OP glossed over this fact.

Agree totally

What coup?

It's in Five Families. Raab said Casso tried to take over the family after Amuso's arrest but Amuso gave out an order that Casso was to be persona non grata in the family, and nobody was to help him.

Raab actually interviewed Casso while he was writing the book. I had never known that beforehand.

The Luccheses did that. The company suffered vandalism and harassment for a long time but never buckled. In fact, it just made them more determined to resist the mob and cooperate with the State OC Task Force.

I think it was Sal Avellino who was behind those murders more than anyone. He kept pushing for it.

Anyone know who the other shooter in the Kubecka and Barstow murders besides Frank Federico, who got a sweetheart deal. Amuso also had a guy killed who was doing gays stuff in prison, they even shot him in the prick. I always thought the Pappadio murder was stupid too.

Rocco Vitulli and Flounderhead Visconti respectively.

The Fava architect who Casso ordered killed was stubbed with cigarette burns and had his genitals mutilated.

Serial killer stuff.

Casso just wanted him dead, not tortured.

Thats as fucked up as it gets. Civilian tortured. For doing his day job.

Never heard of the Casso coup. Interesting.

I thought that too, but the book says he was an associate and was accused of overcharging Casso.

No excuse, obviously.

Have to be the first ever architect mafia associate.

'Yoowa gowa kollect dees debt fora mea. I puta in a nice French Doors onya keetchen fora youse.'

But why mutilate his genitals in the problem was related to money? It's not like the man molested or raped a relative of Casso's. What kind of absurd message does this mutilation carry in this specific case?

Casso was a psychopath, there is no justification for his violent bullshit. Fuck him, hope he dies in solitary.