Probably a generalization but why are Mexican gangs much more organized than black gangs. From the outsider perspective black gangs are very fragmented, most or if not all of the top homicides rates in the country are were black gangs reside and very much it's between the same gangs. I live in the Southwest Texas and I know much of our gangs are direct working with the cartels but overall it's very peaceful. Heck all of the Southwest is very peaceful compared to cities were blacks are the majority. I mean from cities from New Orleans, Newark, Detroit, Baltimore etc. Most of the Latino of Mexican descent live in Souhtwest Sates like Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado etc. The only state were Mexicans have a bad reputation is in California, and that's only because of the bad gang culture with every ethnicity. Why are black gangs so fragmented compared to Latino gangs since it's where I see most of the cause of violence in black neighborhoods.

Thats a great question. Blacks are very violent to each other as well as innocent people. I wish i had the answer kid.

In California Mexicans gangs don't murder at the same rate as the black gangs.

It isn't a gang thing but probably more so a racial or cultural thing.

Not to act like Mexican gangs are full of peaceful angels or anything, it's just a matter of degree when it comes to the amount of murders and violence that takes place.

In my experience black gang members from LA/SoCal don't like hierarchy very much, at least that's what I've had many tell me. They actually view Southsiders as some suckers for allowing some man in the SHU locked down give them orders or tax them.
They don't like taking orders, they like to think nobody controls them.
On top of that, many believe part of the reason Mexican gang murders will always be lower is because ever since 1993 Southsiders were ordered to not do drive bys which is one of the most popular ways gangs commit shootings and killings because it's easier, safer for the shooter and easier to get away with it. But it also caused even more innocent casualties.
Without drive by shootings getting a clean kill is harder.

You kinda answered your own question;

With a lot of Hispanic gangs, they will be a lot closer to drug supply, it's much more of a business, violence fucks up SOMEONES money, and that wont stand in a good organization.


When it's a business, violence happens for a REASON, as long as there is a dependable drug supply, when guys don't have to worry about HOW they will eat tomorrow, dudes chill the fuck out generally. It's only jealously and envy that can really fuck it up at that point, where dudes are eating, but feel like it's not "enough" , for whatever it is they might want, some just want the fuckin power, money be damned.

Where there has been dependable drug supplies or whatever, there have always been organized black gangs, there are too many examples to list, also black gangs in the past that ran numbers in a lot of different cities.


Cartels can control gangs because they get narcotics at such a price point that every can eat. No smart street bred gangbanger would voluntarily fuck up a solid connect. For what?

That point about "not wanting to take orders or answer to anyone" , that was a good one. Cause all the violence is POWER DYNAMICS at work. It's a little bit cultural, in the sense that a lot of Afican Americans largely form their identity around " The Struggle". You can be entrenched in poverty, middle class, educated professional, evenBarak Obama, your identity is usually dictated largely by your relationship to " The struggle".

The mentality kinda enables POVERTY, and it's poverty that's the cause of most of the social ills from gangs and whatnot.


Smeary, as peaceful as you say the gangs are when there is business with the cartels,what happens when there is conflict AMONGST THE CARTEL GANGS THEMSELVES? Violence on a scale that is hard to believe, most of it POWER DYNAMICS BETWEEN THE GANGS ESTABLISHING HIERARCHY AND AUTHORITY.

Gangs in Chicago had the hierarchies dismantled, hence all the little gangs on the streets drawing, and redrawing the map of power on a DAILY BASIS. Until a really strong leader comes forward and brings about CONSOLIDATION, there will be constant competition in the arena of violence, cause whoever controls the violence has the power...


This was a good question, I appreciate you asking it respectfully..

On the hierarchy thing, that was another great point. Growing up, the women in my family couldn't understand, why guys in the streets were loyal to Larry Hoover, a guy locked up since the 70s. They thought these guys were the biggest bitches in the world, cause my cousin went to war to establish his own power. He was making plenty of money, but the idea of taking orders from perceived inferiors, he just couldn't take it. So it's power dynamics. Another cousin, one of his " soldiers" had a fantastic connect. But he wouldn't make a move without my cousin, again the women were like," Carlos is the one with the connect, so why is he your flunky?". But he didn't have what my cousin had, the reputation for being a killer. He didn't have the POWER, and you can't get NO money in Chicago without the power. more than anything, THATS THE GUY YOU WANT TO BE....

The struggle? Typical ni**er mentality.

Lol, another troll..
But yeah, basically in a nutshell that's it, or as Jay-Z put it more succinctly " The only thing niggas identify with is LOSING" ...


So one has to essentially NOT identify with being either a ni**er or Nigga in my opinion.

This is actually a big part of how I got into the Sicilian mafia. Because the closest thing I found to this mentality is the Sicilian aversion to "The State". Due to centuries of oppression, leading to a fundamental distrust of any and all state institutions.

It's like a Mexican immigrant will have nationalistic pride, they are proud to be Mexican. Same with any ethnicity, they have the foundation of culture or language. Like I said, outside of MAYBE music (like Pesci said in the Good Shepard) the main unifying component for African Americans, is that they all deal with the " Struggle", which has become almost an entity unto itself,which was the point I was making.
And pizza guy, NO ONE ON HERE IS GOING TO MISTAKE YOUT FOR PIZZA BOY lol....... Thanks for the troll though,I need some anger management exercises. Lmao

You're welcome.

Also,Smeary, and don't take this the wrong way...


But this is a weird thread coming from a guy who by all intents and purposes, seems UTTERLY FASCINATED BY EXTREME CARTEL VIOLENCE, that's all " Mexican on Mexican" so to speak... Like at times you seem to be almost ROOTING for the carnage, with all the photos and whatnot....
The black on black crime you find extraordinary? I once heard a story of Zetas stopping a bus and making everyone fight to the death like gladiators, or the 40 student protesters who got killed? That stuff warrants no admiration at all....

But on the real, these threads do no good my man. Racially motivated threads, Islam vs Christianity, Israel and the Middle East, politics, these create intractable arguments, that really only bring out the trolls. If you really want to discuss ethnic OC and blacks, you should reply in some of Black Family threads, he is very knowledgable on a multitude of street gangs.
A lot of the things done to African Americans, are the same things done to Latin America (illegal coups, taking all the resources) why the " competition" all the time? Blacks aren't your enemy my man, you won't catch us ever marching to send immigrants back or calling for walls at the border, like worry about Trump getting in lol
I'm done on this one peace...

I would compare the blacks with the camorra and the latinos with the mafia.
The camorra apart in the 1800s and the NCO-NF war in the 80s was always divided and the feuds are very frequent and start for no reason as the mini skirt feud in 1997.
While the sicilians was always organized and powerful. The first mob murder of a famous politicans was in 1896 murder of Notarbartolo because was searching on the Banca Romana affair.
IMO was the different between black and latino gangs was the hierarchy.
The cartels need to import drugs and dont want the attention while the blacks can kills each outer for a corner where sell drug. With an hierarchy like the mob the street soldiers must obey or will be killed and so on.
For me this is the difference the other things the struggle are only bullshits.

I didn't mean to create a hot topic and I have nothing against blacks. It was just a topic that came to my head when I was drinking last night, and mods should ban that pizzaguy using racial slurs. It just occurred to me the other day.

Okay Furio, I'll bite, once..lol

The difference is the hierarchy, black gangs have had hierarchy, the difference like I said was that Latin American countries produce narcotics, and Latino gangs are closer to the source, therefore more reason to make money and less reasons to fight. Hence more reason to abide by the hierarchy.
It's like I remember someone asked, " how is little ass DominicanRepublic so big in cocaine in NY?" Because they ship it through the country, and despite any difference in skin color, they have the common ground of the Spanish culture, see? This steady supply, why mess it up?
When you compare the black gangs to the NCO, and all the wars fought, that was POWER DYNAMICS AT WORK. The NCO is the city, the streets the corners, open air markets so yeah the violence is going to be more intense, more regular, than RURAL BASED Sicily. Also, if you talk Sicily you gotta keep in mind HOW THEY GOT STARTED, BY PROTECTING WEALTHY ESTATES OF POWERFUL LANDOWNERS AND POLITICIANS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE COMMON LABOR. Different type of violence....different objective.... This is the POWER MODEL, and it's more stable. That's the problem with Sicily today, they are just taking from honest people.
But as chaotic as Naples is, they will always have a bigger earning potential because it's the city, look at the Nuvolettas, they are from Naples, but really organized, or the Casalesi. They are from Naples but very MAFIA-ish.

This is a cartel city, Chicago, there are plenty Latino gangs, they have the connects, so violence is less frequent. But when someone fucks up, the violence is ugly, a whole family got slaughtered in Gage Park a while back. Beaten and stabbed to death.


Look at the DiLauros, they were organized, until his lieutenants decided that " they weren't eating enough" like I said earlier. And they were making PLENTY OF MONEY, this was about power, being in charge. NOT FUCKING MONEY. Naples is a war zone RIGHT NOW, right? Why?
I agree it's a result of basic criminal dynamics, not any inherently violent tendencies on behalf of a race of people. Basically I like how you don't make it a RACIAL THING, which is what Smeary tried to make it....

See the fallacy these guys have is thinking that somehow black criminal organizations somehow adhere to different rules than say an Italian one. Regardless of race, a successful criminal organization will follow the same rules as any successful company.A loan shark is a loan shark, a drug trafficker is a drug trafficker, a bookie is a bookie, a gangster is a gangster no matter what, the rules don't change. The SAME factors that got em warring in Naples are the same factors that got em warring in Chicago.
like Furio you mentioned the Cartels, Smeary did as well, he mentioned the gangs allied with the cartel,as being less violent. But that is THIS side of the border where they get money. Don't try to tell me they aren't violent in Mexico. It's the SUPPLY OF DRUGS, THE BUSINESS THAT TAKES THE VIOLENCE OUT, otherwise you will have groups competing for POWER.


And I don't think y'all understand what I mean by struggle. You ain't talking to no fuckin crybaby here. It's why I compared it to the Sicilian MENTALITY, NOT THIER CRIMINAL MODUS OPERANDI. Sicilians don't trust the state, because they feel the state wants to fuck you over. This is similar to poor AfricanAmerican views, they feel like America is " against them", some of us feel like assimilation is a form of surrender. But there is no country to go to, no language to fall back on, no fundamental uniting component that creates some form of nationalism, a basis for national pride. In Sicily it's the FAMILY,It's the most basic thing. This is why I said sometimes it seems we struggle for the sake of struggling, because it's what we have identified with for so long. NOT LIKE, "BUT WE HAVE TO STRUGGLE SO HARD", like wtf? That's NOT WHAT I MEANT LOL
In another thread, a poster basically asked, what's wrong with African American culture, I tried to give a real honest answer just now, if no one wants to hear it , cool, but don't ask then, lol

Okay for real, this is my last one, cause like I said, these racially motivated threads are kinda some bullshit, I see why on real deal they got like a disclaimer on that type of shit.

I'll bite too CabriniGreen.

I dont know if u are black or white and never want to offend anyone.

With comparing the black gangs with the camorra means the black gang are frammented and violent but in some cases there was an organized groups ( frank Lucas, Leroy Barnes ecc). The camorra isnt only Naples, not only the cities but also the small towns like Marano.
In the mafia were a difference between the big city mobster and the rurale mobster. This difference will leader to the first and second mob war.
I cited the Notarbartolo murder because the mobster even in 1896 had ties with the politicans and before the 1956 meeting with the americans cousins the mafia deal in drugs.

The Mexican cartels existed before Escobar so ever had an hierarchy and also the pride to be Mexicans.

Wow this thread escalated quickly! Let me grab a seat here.

@ Smearygoose
I think someone made a similar topic a year or so ago. General speaking of the difference between black gangs & latino gangs is that violence between black gang is actually money wise while latino gang it's pride. There have been numerous cases and varies from city to city. You also take into count vendetta which is one reason why it's a perpetual cycle; They kill my friend/relative then it's revenge karma, tic for tac & eye for eye. Hierarchy shapes and affect groups differently. I think people get the idea that because some groups are structured that will bring order, which is wrong. We have too many examples of organized groups that's involved in conflicts to high violence (ex: LCN, Sicilian Mafia clans, Cartels, Bikers, Yakuza, Chicago Orgs). Therefore I wouldn't say black gangs are fragmented ( except for specific groups) but are cliquish. More loyalty tied to your locale then an overall umbrella/organization ( again GENERALLY). Latino gangs have a significant murder count in the southwest overall from L.A to Houston. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Latinos make up the half or more murder victims in L.A ?

Latino gangs have the direct connections due to cultural lineage per say. No different from Asian gangs & Middle Eastern gangs with connects to syndicates in their homeland. Latino gang are still more traditional in gang culture to represent and still others focus on money. Notice in Chicago you don't have many rival latino mobs clique up but occasionally for A & A, while black mobs have been clique up for money. Even in the burbs too. Outside those gang cities , you have Crew/Clique cities with latino gangs and they either work together ( NYC/ATL/Houston) or mind each other business ( DC/ New Orleans/ Oakland). Latino gang with direct membership to cartels have more concern for any fallout in the drug trade.

@ Crash/ Pizzaguy ( Man! If only PB was here to see his stalker/wannabe )

Why not answer these questions?: http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=880912#Post880912

@ CabriniGreen
Bravo brother, great response.. The ladies just don't understand when your hierarchy more rigid in the pen than streets, the violations will be waiting for you. Got relatives in the 7-4 as well.

@ Furio
Naples remind me of a DC/New Orleans crews but your assessment isn't to far off. I saw that documentary on the Camorra and read articles too. Sound just like American gangs without the colors/symbols.

Mexican/Chicano gangs have a high murder count in LA county but they make up the majority of overall gang membership by far.
Black gangs kill each other at a higher rate. It's always well known, the black areas have the most murders per capita.
I don't think it's just a gang thing.

@ Furio
It's all good my man, I always enjoy your post. I know you don't mean any ill will. And I know you know how it feels to get trolled, I remember that cheech post like huh? What the fuck was that?


@ smeary
No problem my man, like I said, I appreciated that you ACTUALLY ASKED a real question, any one who is real, and honest, and not overly sensitive can understand where you were coming from. It was just, this JUST HAPPENED recently in another thread and I kinda went off half cocked, I kinda wanted to redeem myself with a civilized response, lol

@ SoCal
I always enjoy your post too, I look to you and Black Fam for all things gang related...

@BlackFamily
Again, your contributions to the board are much appreciated, thanks for the compliment my dude. I really wanted to get deep in the other thread, but the guy just got me too irritated to say anything intelligent lol. I felt like Jay again, like " Picture me letting these clowns nit pick at me " , you know ?

Where do you get that any street gangs are organized? Yeah, let's announce to the world we exist by spray painting our name on every single wall, announcing our presence on social media, and making terrorist threats in the public domain under our identities. #organized. And, Latino gangs are the worst offenders of this behavior.

Same can be said for Maravilla and the other "green light" gangs in LA that reject the Mexican Mafia, along with other Latino gangs in California and in the Southwest like the Nuestra Familia and Nortenos, Fresno Bulldogs, Mongols, etc. Black gangs are not the only groups who are amused by Surenos (Mexican Mafia affiliates) paying a street tax.



That rule is never honored. Drive byes happen all of the time by Latino gang members in LA.

The Nortenos have a strict hierarchy, some would argue even more strict and organized than the Eme and Surenos.
The Maravilla gangs roll with the Southsiders in prison and still fall under Eme.
Some of them have even began paying taxes.
The Maravillas were only green lighted for a short time relative to their entire history.

Maravilla varrios have historically had deep ties to the Mexican MafIa. They disproportionately produced more Eme members than most other gang areas of Southern California. They still have active members till this day. Maravilla gangs Fued with each other more than non-Maravilla gangs in most cases.
Any other gangs that are green lighted and are still active are a tiny drop in the bucket.
The Mongols and Fresno Bulldogs are just a tiny drop in the bucket which makes up the overwhelming majority of Chicano gang members in California, with Nortenos being a far away second.
Other groups are the rare exceptions and not the rule.


As for drive bys, for you to say that rule is NEVER honored is just plain false.
It is true, that gang members do drive bys and break the rules, but again, Those are the exception. the rule has really limited the amount of drive bys in comparison to what it was like before it went into effect. If it wasn't there, they would be much more frequent.
If you do a drive by today and get caught, you risk being attacked in jail by the SouthSide car, and if you kill a child or a baby in a drive by you'll have to PC up.
This is a real incentive to not do them. Dumbasses will always do it anyway, but the majority follow the rules.
The rule changed the culture into thinking of drive bys as being cowardly and now they're frowned upon by the average gang member.

Yeah, I'd like to see you tell a law enforcement official in the central valley that the Fresno Bulldogs are just a "drop in the bucket".

I would. They make up a tiny percentage of Hispanic gang members in Calfironia.
Compare that to LA county alone, it isn't even close.

I'm not saying they don't have power in their area, but you're over here pointing out the exceptions. Who cares about the exceptions? I'm speaking in general. How the vast majority operate.

And, you know this, how? Do we really know how many hard core gang members there are? Police inflate the numbers to advance their own agenda. That's obvious. Anyone who's been to central cali, especially Fresno County, knows the Bulldogs are ever present. "Tiny" is just such a short sighted description to use.

https://youtu.be/xrokx2Bmk_U?t=25m6s
Freeway rick ross explains the mentality on the inside thats sort of reflected in so cals comments about black gangs not liking the rigid prison gang hierarchy. Go to 25:09 if it loads at the beginning.

I'm not going to pretend to be some expert on Frenso gangs. I'm not.

I don't doubt they're big and active there.
I've been aware of them and know of them. As far as I know, they're based out of Frenso.
How many other cities and counties do they dominate?

How do we know they're smaller in numbers relative to the other groups (Surenos).

Is like asking how do we know Canada has less people than the United States.

Unless there's a huge bulldog recruitment movement going on up north ( outside of Frenso area) that I don't know about what which is very much possible, then I can't see how one organization changes the general rule of how majority ( Nortenos and Surenos operate)

If anything gangs like Frenso Bulldogs and even some of the Maravilla gangs when they were green lighted for real, took pride in the fact that they were going against the grain and not conforming to the general rule. They know they are the exception..

In Texas we don't have street gangs but prison gangs like the Texas Mexican Mafia, Texas Syndicate, Pistoleros etc. When I say we don't have street gangs I mean we don't have neighborhood gangs that operate only in a certain neighborhoods like in L.A also no tagging of sorts because of it. Also the prison gangs in Texas have a strict hiearchy with tons of associate and few actual members and have a very close relationship with the cartels. They operate both inside and out of jail. They are very organized and are defenetly organized crime.

You may not be aware of it but about every mid size to large city in Texas have neighborhood crews/cliques and I seem pictures of tags, ex: Houston ranging from MS-13 to Hoovers Criminals.

@ CabriniGreen

Your welcome and I do know what you mean.

Not to the extent of Cali though. When people stereotype gangs they usually go after the Cali gang stereotype and apply it to all black and hispanic gangs. Prison gangs like the Tango Blasts, Texas Mexican Mafia, Hermanos Pistoleros and Texas Syndicate are a lot more relevant in Texas than street gangs. At least in the valley and South Texas overall, not sure about the northeast were blacks gangs are more present like Houston but I think they don't go by neighborhood like in Cali. At least the Mexican gangs.

Black gangs in Texas are similar or extensions of L.A gangs and some from Chicago but L.A black gangs blanket the entire state of Texas. The article I brought up in the ABT & Crips/Bloods working together in the meth trade even mention the name of a local crew. Many latino crews/cliques/gangs name themselves after their barrio in Texas. Also:

https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_s...tAssessment.pdf