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Re: Most powerful LCN families today in north america
[Re: carminezazzi]
#884636
06/04/16 09:39 AM
06/04/16 09:39 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 653 Illinois
F_white
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Posts: 653
Illinois
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6 chicago 7 Phill 8 Jersey 9 new england 10 detroit
From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn.
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Re: Most powerful LCN families today in north america
[Re: carminezazzi]
#884642
06/04/16 11:24 AM
06/04/16 11:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 61
BronaZora
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Also where would the montreal family join this?, i have no idea of their size...seen to have alot of power though. The Montreal Mob would be on the same level of Genovese/Gambino, and perhaps even ahead of them when things are stable. Also I would consider the Siderno group to be the most powerful out of North America, I know they're 'Ndranghea and not LCN, but nevertheless they're still Italian OC
Last edited by BronaZora; 06/04/16 11:25 AM.
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Re: Most powerful LCN families today in north america
[Re: BronaZora]
#884650
06/04/16 12:35 PM
06/04/16 12:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,499 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,499
naples,italy
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Also where would the montreal family join this?, i have no idea of their size...seen to have alot of power though. The Montreal Mob would be on the same level of Genovese/Gambino, and perhaps even ahead of them when things are stable. Also I would consider the Siderno group to be the most powerful out of North America, I know they're 'Ndranghea and not LCN, but nevertheless they're still Italian OC Bronazora I just put the siderno group on the top. Isnt true that arent lcn when the ndrine come in a country with the time merce with the non italian but continue to hold the blood ties with the Calabria. The rizzutos lose most of it power after the mob war and arent more the sixth family.
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Re: Most powerful LCN families today in north america
[Re: Ciment]
#884708
06/05/16 04:32 PM
06/05/16 04:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,516
gangstereport
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What are they going to do push 700 made guys out force them to deal drugs when most of them are bookies they dont even deal drugs ridiclous this is kill the heads of the five familys i cant believe what i am reading what are they going to do fly over and kill them  . The Ndrangheta have not "taken over" any country in the world sure they have guys operating all over the world importing drugs but they control the criminal groups operating in these countrys They have already become the new drug suppliers for the five familys over taking Cosa Nostra that does not mean they run the five familys probably 85% of the money the five familys make has nothing to do with drugs. I dont think you understand the LCN in Amercia if you think drug trafficking especially in 2016 dictates who has the power drug they make more money and more involved in gambling, loansharking and construction this is one of the most ridiclous points i have seen on this board
Not connected with scott or anyone at gangsterreport
Sorry for the confusion
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Re: Most powerful LCN families today in north america
[Re: carminezazzi]
#884740
06/05/16 10:14 PM
06/05/16 10:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein
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Re: Most powerful LCN families today in north america
[Re: IvyLeague]
#884758
06/06/16 02:11 AM
06/06/16 02:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 68
carminezazzi
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I am just stating a pattern that is going on. You and your friends are making accusations on things I did not say and using mockery and insults to prove your points rather than trying to understand my view point. I am not trying to convince people but to state my point as intellectually as possible and I respect other peoples viewpoints even if they differ from mine but if you want to conduct yourselves as children then go ahead and have your fun. This is the end of my conversation with you tough guy. You're predicting the Ndrangheta is going to take over. For years people said the same things about the Sicilians. It never happened and neither will your prediction. Furthermore, even in today's American mob, turncoats are still very much the minority. People talk about "everybody lining up to rat" but it's hyperbolic nonsense. If it were true, the NY families really would be finished like the predictions 20 years ago asserted. Exactly i mean for example..... how many mobsters has the genovese family had for instance...800?... 1000? over the last 50 years and only 7 informants Being an informant isnt actually that common...your buying into the media press bullshit. For starters being an informer will get you killed even today, and or you will be kicked out of the life...have to watch your back and wont have an contacts to make money... Try getting a job as ex mafia rat...goodluck [ask john alite, hes broke}
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Re: Most powerful LCN families today in north america
[Re: carminezazzi]
#884767
06/06/16 03:13 AM
06/06/16 03:13 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,679 Chicago
CabriniGreen
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@tiger84 NAILED IT,LOL @climent I get what you are saying, the point you are trying to make, this is the thing... Neither the Sicilians, or Ndrangheta want to take over the American families, they never have. Their Concern is controlling the flow of narcotics. You gotta understand, the Sicilians and calabrians are based in basically small towns. Rural type organizations, that traditionally were based off Mafiosi "protecting" wealthy estates, and the owners of the wealthy estates having close ties to politicians. So it's a system that works hand in glove so to speak. This power is concentrated in THIER TERRITORY, remember it's literally the land that their power was based off. But these territories are limited in their economic potential, which is why there is fierce competition, and a need for a tightly regulated system for the " men of honor". This system of complicity also enable the collection of pizzo' the tax on all the business in said territory. Furthering the need for a mechanism for who gets what, and who is entitled to what at any given time. Now drugs change things a little. The first guy to get the most solid, reliable connection, respect, prestige, old age, family ties, whatever be damned, PEOPLE WILL FOLLOW THE MONEY. ( This is why the Sicilians became so involved with Turkey and the Corsicans, the Calabrians being so embedded in South America, to gain control of the supply end, whole sale markets) The guy that can secure a reliable, safe, distribution point, where large amounts of narcotics can be moved effectively and quickly, will always be valuable to a supplier, and will always have leverage at the table. It also MAXIMIZES profits (This is why you saw the Sicilians sending crews over to America to move heroin, why the Calabrians entrench themselves in European cities, they don't control their own distribution in Italy, and why, despite their lack of refinement, you see Bikers and street gang leaders with a say in the trade, the "Marlo Method" I like to call it.... ) Also, you will never see Americans sending crews to Italy, for the same reasons Naples doesn't send crews here. Both sides already have control of city streets, the rural Sicilians and calabrians never had that luxury... Hence they move around a LOT MORE.... They need street corners, or bars, or trendy night clubs, places to move merchandise, they can't do this from the hills somewhere in Sicily or Calabria. That why the Pizza connection was so smart, the guys were constantly in motion, never a concentration of customers and product, and money in one spot, cash operation, ready made built in money laundering component, built in delivery, it was a smart thing... Ace narcotics smugglers,the guys that can get the loads from one side of the ocean, to another. The guys that control docks and ports.The guys that can truck the stuff from state to state under cover. Be it coffee, powdered milk, fruit, in furniture, whatever, this guy will always be valuable to a supplier cause it one less thing for him to worry about. ( I suspect this is why the Frenchman is so valued in Montreal, he STILL has a seat at the table) I'll add a fourth component, though it only comes into play once you establish yourself in the chain. This is a reliable money laundering network, and for this I'll use the Caruana- Cun-trea family.... Now you guys mention the Sicilians, Ivey, you gotta understand... I DONT THINK THE SICILIANS WERE EVERY REALLY INTERESTED IN, EVEN MEMBERSHIP IN THE AMERICAN FAMILIES. They accepted it as a price of doing business type of thing, but their entire focus was moving their drugs, and laundering the money, that's it. Take this excerpt from Sixth Family... https://books.google.com/books?id=0ZygQJ...ano&f=false It's about how Sciascia was a Bonnano capo, but had no real interest in the Bonnano Family, outside of using it as a mechanism to facilitate his drug business. That's pretty much the Cherry Hill Gambinos as well, they were loyal to Sicily until Riina killed every thing, then they accepted American mob membership as a survival tool. Ditto with Sal Catalano, in the book it says he basically moved narcotics and stayed to himself. So I while I understand the point climent is making about the strength of Ndrangheta, I sort of agree with Ivey on this one. See if the Cotroni/Violi organization would have let Nick Rizzuto and the Sicilians just move their narcotics with Impunity, the Rizzutos never woulda gave a fuck about who was boss of Montreal. The fact that they tried to use the criminal hierarchy as justification for controlling the operation, made it a necessity to control the hierarchy. I'll bet you if Angelo Bruno would have balked at letting the Gambinos set up shop in Jersey he woulda been very dead a lot sooner, and maybe not even from the American Gambinos. You know why you never see the Camorra in America? They have all the urban distribution centers in Italy and a lot of Eastern Europe (cities like Prague) so all they need is reliable supply. They can just buy from Ndrangheta, then move the stuff on the streets of Naples. It why you see so much drug gang violence, young guys, "Baby Bosses" they call em, like gun battles In the streets type of activity. At one point they were very entrenched in Castel Del Sol in Spain, and so controlled their own supply as well, but I don't think this is still the case? @ Furio Raffale Amato, the Spaniard right? But I think he got busted a long time ago...... It comes down to this; If the American Mafia tried to exert some sort of control over Ndranghetas narcotics operation, we would be like " Oh my god they hit Frank Cali!!!, like tomorrow, lol. But they won't, so there will never be a real conflict of interest there. If the American mob want to get into the narcotics business' they will contact Ndrangheta. If Ndrangheta wants in on any American investments for all their ill gotten gains, as well as channels for laundering the money, the American mob could and would probably help. Now one thing I don't get.... Why do you guys think sports books, loan sharking, unions, can compete with narcotics as far as earning? Tom Hagen would disagree with you guys, lol. I routinely see these European gangs getting 100-200-300-400 million euros worth of shit taken from em on a REGULAR BASIS, it seems to do nothing to stop the system. When climet said he was looking at repeating patterns worldwide, I agree with that. (Pizza connection for heroin, recent Pizza connection in Queens for coke)Like it's pretty much a fact the cartels earn more than the American families. If you follow this stuff, its become common knowledge that the Calabrians out earn even THEM. I would definitely say that the Rizzutos rivaled any of the American families in earnings, including the Genovese, based of narcotics operations. It enabled Vito to make moves like that 5 billion dollar bridge they wanted to build. It enabled him to put together that 200 million dollar sports book, like it wasn't the other way around. All these powerful worldwide gangs, are into narcotics, it knows no boundaries, yet you guys still think the REGIONAL NEW YORK mob, could compete without any major involvement in the drug trade. Even as we acknowledge most of the billion dollar rackets were busted up like garbage, the garment center, the docks, I'm just saying, what would they have left, that would be comparable? Entertainment? You never really hear much there, they gotta have some connects still... I know there is gambling, but again there is no way that guy has more liquidity than a successful drug dealer, I can't see it. Only during the Harlem boom times, when they had all the narcotic distribution( see my point here) all the action from numbers, that's a lot of hard cash, Fat Tony had the biggest book I've ever heard of at 80 million, and he was Harlem based. Maybe only Gerry Catena ,Richie the boot in jersey, only guys I've heard of remotely as rich but this is a different era. Today it's all drugs, unless you have some Richie Martino kind of ingenuity, but I haven't seen anything like that in awhile, it's all mostly traditional mob stuff. And traditional mob stuff ain't beating narcotics, not as far as I can see... My last edit; I also think the sophistication of some of these narcotics operations is underrated, for example; The Naples gangs created distribution cells that have no street presence. It's more based on clicks like the college student pusher, or the law office pusher, or the doctors office pusher. Saviano called em Neo-Liberal mobsters lol. They also created a system where a regular working joe could invest in narcotics transactions like it was a stock, and they paid out when the investment, the shipment was sold off. In this way they always had ready capital for narcotics shipments, whereas the calabrians have the trust of Colombia and can get everything on credit, tremendous leverage there... Good discussion, any more thoughts fellas?
Last edited by CabriniGreen; 06/06/16 04:03 AM.
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Re: Most powerful LCN families today in north america
[Re: carminezazzi]
#884777
06/06/16 05:01 AM
06/06/16 05:01 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,679 Chicago
CabriniGreen
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Oh I get you Ivey, I know the American LCN makes more from bookmaking than narcotics, in fact it's just smart for them to focus more on gambling than drugs for the reasons of control. I meant more in general, that a drug operation makes more than a bookmaking/loan operation, and faster, but is almost directly in proportion, how can I put it? As safe and reliable a bookmaking operation is, on the other end of the spectrum, the drug trade is equally as volatile and unpredictable. Until you manage to get the links in the chain, then it becomes, like, an exponential multiplier effect as far as revenue. It's like a financial virus, or cancer even, it feeds on itself....
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Re: Most powerful LCN families today in north america
[Re: carminezazzi]
#884779
06/06/16 05:22 AM
06/06/16 05:22 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,679 Chicago
CabriniGreen
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I also wondered what affect the Gambinos involvement with Ndrangheta would have on the power structure in NY.
I'll say it again, it's why the Queens coke bust with hints of Genovese/Calabrian collaboration was so interesting to me. I saw it as ( if it's actually true) a Genovese response to the Gambinos moves with the calabrians. Or it could be just like in the sixth family, where the Italians from Italy are initiating these alliances, and not exactly taking no for an answer.
New York appears to be a converging point right now, The Mexicans want it,but may have to settle for heroin. The calabrians are moving in, as they already are pretty close to securing their own gateway, i.e. Montreal, once they get that sewn up, there will probably be a lot of consolidation with the shipments as everyone will use Montreal since it's under Calabrian control now. Maybe we will see much more retail presence in NY from the calabrians as they open up bars and clubs or whatever.I don't know where all this will leave the Dominicans, I guess they will keep retail in NY, may have to compete with the Mexican cartels for wholesale on the East coast pretty soon I'm not sure, it depends on how much coke comes-gets through the Caribbean...
It's like the genovese have access to union treasuries, like they will always have cash for loans, and to back gambling operations right? That's what I see the gambinos drug operations as, money machines to underwrite their other traditional mob rackets. It's the one thing that gives me pause to automatically putting the Westside number one...
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