As an atheist I find that people will blame me for not looking at facts or whatever, but this is my logic which I explained in a previous thread. This is a serious rumination I've been contemplating.

You see, I have read and heard of Jesus dying on the cross for us, but can we please, just for a second, throw aside all religious beliefs and think about simple humanity and humans as they are. I want to know...did Jesus Christ free a nation like Mahatma Gandhi did, making the people free? Or did Jesus Christ invent the telephone, a fantastic means of communication, or did he invent the lightbulb, electricity, or radio waves? Was Jesus Christ a great thinker like Einstein, Orwell, or even Darwin (although Darwin and Jesus do NOT match)? Did Jesus Christ invent a medical cure for some disease which has long since gone? Did he write intelligent novels, did he make intelligent films...has he, religion aside, actually done anything for us which is affecting us now? Well, yes, religious wars for one...conflicts, homosexual bashing, hate towards others? Maybe not Jesus's fault are the former 3, but he certainly comes around the root of it.

My simple logic rumination is this, and think about it; how is Jesus helping us now, I mean REALLY helping us like for example the allied forces in WW2 stopped evil ruling all of Europe, even the world. Or cures for diseases, sicknesses, etc. I want to seriously know how Jesus Christ is currently affecting us in a large and good way (us as in the people) like others are? I don't think so.

Please understand what I have to say and although I know you will immediately get pissed off with me for my thoughtful rumination, understand that I am attempting to make a point.

Can anyone answer me while talking about LARGE SCALE AFFECTING, ABOUT WHAT IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING IN OUR WORLD, NOT PERSONAL TEACHINGS. For Christians and those affected by Christians, then Jesus Christ will be affecting you personally. I'm not talking about personally.

So there I have it. A huge screw, screwed into my steel coffin, perhaps? Probably. Still, I am in no way trying to be an asshole or anything...or offend. Please understand that. Okay?

As far as I'm concerned, ruminations are not meant for debate. It may spawn it, but I'm simply ruminating up a little thought for you to read and consider. Nothing big.

Thank-you everyone. Opinions?

-Penguin

Jesus, unlike Gandhi (who was a great man), stayed out of the political light.

I don't think it was God's plan for his son to break the Roman empire, or invent the telephone.

BUT, Jesus did cure lepers, he casted out demons, he cured many diseases that people had.

Maybe yes maybe no, there is no prove for that.

IMHO Jesus was a just a mortal just like us.

Anton, was Jesus not a great teacher? Don't people today still practice what he preaches? How can this all be "made up" or "fake" if it's been around for centuries!? Jesus did heal people like joltinjoe05 has already stated (and to Don Michael, it's called faith. Why do you have to have everything proven to you!?) Have you ever been to the moon Don Michael? Do you truly know if we've been there?? But getting back to Anton, & again as joltinjoe05 said, Jesus stayed out of the political light. The people of his country wanted to make Him king, but He refused. Jesus came here to save us from damnation, not to run for office!

The answer to your rumination can not be answered on this board. Simply put: Jesus offered mankind a way to eternal life. Follow His teachings and you will get there. There are thousands of books - starting with the Bible - that cover this topic and His teachings. Priests study the topic for years. You can't find the answer here.

But BTW, the rewards on earth are not material. The reward in this life is your own inner peace. Jesus doesn't control the free will of people who make bombs, guns and have the desires to kill other human beings.

Withough Jesus, there'd be 2 Billion (2,000,000,000) more people in this world without spiritual guidance. Could be chaos! That alone, is quite an accomplishment.


P.S. You used "rumination" 5 times in your post. Here's a thesaurus .

I value Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha, Confusious and any admirable prophet because every one of them had a true message for people to follow and believe. I admire the core of their ideas, but not many of the actions of their subsequent churches or legions of fanatics.

SB - I agree 100% - well said!

Anton ... if you choose not to believe in Jesus Christ or the Church that is ok with me... but by respect for other believers such as me ... don't question our faith... religion is a thing that i don't like to discust ...

PERFECT! Perfect..perfect. This woman is a Goddamn genius.

My simple logic rumination is this, and think about it; how is Jesus helping us now, I mean REALLY helping us like for example the allied forces in WW2 stopped evil ruling all of Europe, even the world.

^ Anton.

WWII happened, as a continuation of WWI because of the treaty of Versailles and all the people England and France fucked over with it. Jesus had nothing to do with it. He is dead. He no longer exists; as a human.

Your practically asking..:

"Science, and phylosophy aside: what did Einstein do for the world?"

Nicely put Guineapig! Very nice indeed!

Now there's one thing that me and you differ on. I feel free to discuss my religion any time.
In fact, I'm pretty sure Jesus wanted us to spread the word. But that's just my .02

I won't fight over religious beliefs though. I'll have mine, you can have yours.

Zahleweh...I'm not questioning your faith...I'm simply questioning, full-stop. I certainly don't put people down for religion.

Absolutely Saladbar...I value them too. I asked if Jesus has really helped us as much as he may have wished...if others have instead done better for the physical world.

You miss my point, GP. I'm not talking about how Jesus helped in these events...I'm talking about how others have helped more to the physical (and from an atheists point of view, mental and emotional) world.

You're right there, Joe...but it is not what I'm asking. Has everyone missed what I'm saying??

Oh well, Uzi pointed it out nicely..."r*minations" is no longer a word in my vocabulary!

-Penguin

Don't be ridiculous, bro - use it all you want... up to 3 times per post (And stop listening to Uzto... he uzto ruminate, but now he's just whining like a bitch)

Anton, I know your beliefs, but this shocks me. Are you saying that Thomas Edison is a better man than Jesus? That is just mind-boggling.

First of all, Jesus is a great man, because he is the only person to never have sinned. I think that qualifies him as an important figure.

On to your question: how does he help mankind today. Well, he offers us eternal life. If that's not enough, how about all of the teachings he has given; teachings that share many of your pacifist beliefs; teachings that billions of people in the world believe in. Those believers, while of course not perfect, follow his lessons, making the world a better place. You will argue that I am biased, as I am a religious person. Fine. Just look at the facts.

Also, Don Michel, is ANYTHING in the world proven? Proof for you comes from books, television, etc. You use sources such as those to prove things. Well, the Bible is my proof. What else do you need?

You miss my point, GP. I'm not talking about how Jesus helped in these events...I'm talking about how others have helped more to the physical (and from an atheists point of view, mental and emotional) world.

^ Anton.

You miss my point.. Appalingly. Of couse others have altered and affect every existing aspect of the physical world. It's only logical; since: Jesus is no longer present in a tangiably physical form. Wouldn't it be unfair if he affected a world he did not live in more then the ones living in it? Though he could.

You are asking. Without counting all Jesus devoted his life to doing.. What were his other contributions.. Do you understand that? It doesn't make sense.. Let me try to rephrase the question, I asked you previously:
Besides flying what other abilities does a bird have? - As that is all a bird does, and what its life depends on, there is nothing else it does.
As Jesus' life according to the bible; was to spread the gospel of his father, to cure the sick, make the world a better place. - Other then that.. What did he do?

Not that I give a fuck for what Jesus has supposedly done.. In any fucking way.
I have an even better example:

"Without Anton asking what Jesus did other then doing what he was supposed to do. What did Anton ask? Facts aside and not minding that he asked. What did he ask?"

Do you notice, the; brainlessness of the question?

Guineapig.

GP, I'm certain Jesus Christ was a very great man...but haven't others affected the physical world better than him, no matter what time they were alive? It's the simplicity of my question which nobody has come close to answering.

-Penguin

Sure other people have affected the physical world (not better than Jesus though.) For example, just look at the millions of people who died in the concentration camps during WWII. They died for their religion. They died because they still believed that someone would save them. Now, who has had that big of an impact on this world except Jesus, where someone would lay down his life for what he/she believes in? Also, in Columbine, I heard a story about how one of the killers asked a student if they believed in God & they said yes. Then one of the kids told them that he said hi & shot them. Now I ask you, who can you name that has such an impact on people like Jesus, where people will die for Him, just as He died for us!?